Sounds like your family gave you a nice mother’s day.  May God bless them greatly.  I hope you gave yourself the chance to be happy.

*hugs*

HAPPY MOTHER’S DAY(a bit BELATEDLY……..)!

I hope you had a great Mother’s Day. Your son is in a play?! How fun…I’m sure it must be neat!
Are you joining the 80′s fun this week?? would love to hear what you remember about the 80′s! Take care…~D~

Hello Heather,

Thank you for your thoughts on Joy’s site. I pasted this here just in case you didn’t get to read it. Before I begin, I would like to say that I am not here to judge you or anyone else, but to guide in an exegetical understanding of 1 Tim 2 concerning the role of women in the Church. The responses I have laid out for you from what you have said, is to simply respond to the issues you have raised accordingly from an exegetical basis to understand Paul’s words. This is not an attack on you or your character for I have no doubt that you are one loves the Lord and pursues Him.

“First of all Paul wrote for specific churches and addressed the problems those churches faced. In some of the churches women were being very disruptive, interrupting the flow of the service to ask questions of their husbands, and at that time the churches were separated by sex, and so it was a calling out in the middle of a service. Paul wanted order, so he told women to ask their questions in the home.”

I had often held to this view in the past as well. However, it was not because I was necessarily searching the Scriptures and looking at the historical context that I derived to such an understanding of Paul’s words in 1 Tim 2. I realized later on, that it was simply a means to move around the text and avoid Paul’s instruction to give warrant that women could be ordained as pastors. When looking at this text, there is no evidence historically, and most importantly textually, that Paul is addressing a specific issue. For 2 reasons;

1.) Whenever Paul addresses an issue at a Church, he does so explicitedly. He constantly does so in the epistles to the Corinthians. For example in 1 Corinth 5, Paul addressed an issue of a person sleeping his father’s wife. Paul makes it undoubtedly clear that he is addressing issues in his writings. In chapter 8, Paul also addresses specific issues concerning Christian Liberty that in the Corinthian church. This is the pattern of Paul’s writings in all his epistles. Paul addressed the issue of Peter’s hypocrisy in Gal 2, and spoke theologically on its falsity according to justification by faith alone. Therefore, we cannot contend to the idea that Paul is addressing 1 church only in 1 Tim so that it gives us reason to reject such instruction today. Even if, (hypothetically speaking) Paul was addressing a specific issue at the Church of Ephesus, then the instruction of a woman’s role still applies today because every other issue Paul has raised in his other epistles is applicable to us today.

2.) Exegetically, Paul gives us a universal code of conduct in 1 Tim 2:9-15 about the role of women, because Paul references the account of creation from verses 13-14. It is an argument that cannot be refuted because Paul says; “For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.” Paul here is not saying that men are superior in value or worth, but rather, God ordained an order of roles at the creation. Adam was formed first, then Eve, which gives us the logical flow that the male has the role of teaching authority within context to the chapter. Verse 14 then states; “And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.” Paul is not saying that woman are at fault to the Fall, but is rather implying that woman are a “weaker vessel.” This again, does not mean that men are grave weaknesses as well, but is pointing out a universal truth that was ordained at the beginning of creation. Paul concludes the role of women in verse 15; “But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.” Women have an amazing gift that men don’t. They have the ability to bear children, and to be the most effective in raising and teaching their children, more than the father. God in His design, and given both sexes equal value in the kingdom, and has also brought harmony into the Church and home by defining the roles of both sexes. This does not mean women can never teach, but it rather showing the dichotomy between men and women. I have no problems with women teaches other women in the Church, because #1, the Bible does not prohibit that. It also does not mean women are dumber than men. But what it does mean, is that the gifts women have are designed to function anywhere, but to exercise teaching authority over men in the Church and also the home. It also doesn’t mean men cannot learn from women. I have learned many great lessons from women and have been ministered to as fellow saints by women in our discussions with one another. But Paul’s words and instructions are clear in 1 Tim and Titus on the role of women in the Church.

“Obviously Paul had women missionaries and teachers, Lydia comes to mind, and others that he addressed in his letter for the work they did for the church. Jesus certainly used women, think of the woman at the Well, and the women whom he sent to preach the good news to the disciples.”

Indeed, and I do not object to women being missionaries per se. However, as much as Jesus did elevate the status of women in His day, Jesus did not choose 1 woman to be an apostle. That is very significant because Jesus remained obedient to the universal instruction of roles in ministry and in the home. It does not mean women cannot evangelize to others, but rather how the ministry functions among roles. Christ appointed 12 apostles, so that they may judge the 12 tribes of Israel. The apostolic ministry was seen as authoritative in the 1st century, and since it consisted of men, it was being faithful to God’s design for the ministry.

“Legalists can grab certain passages and use them to beat their believers to submission. I know that is not the heart of Paul or of Christ. For it is not laws, but the freedom IN CHRIST that Paul preached.”

But you must understand, that when the Bible says that we have freedom in Christ, it does not mean freedom from NT Eccelessiastical instruction. Rather, it is talking about freedom from the condemnation of the Law for salvation. It is not talking about roles, but the eternal destiny of a believer. In Christ, we are free, free from the Law, because Christ has become the righteousness of the Law, so that those who believe in Him would be counted as righteous. Therefore, our obedience is an overflow of the knowledge that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone.

I hope these responses are clear and understandable.

-albert

hey there. i am so sorry about what you went through in the past. no child should have to endure that. I pray that God heals that child inside you.

the cross from your daughter sounds lovely.

peace of christ to ya

I spelled “opinionated” wrong,sorry…..

I understand Heather.

However, I do not see debate as something merely enjoyable, but crucial and necessary. Jesus did not always speak volumes in simple words. The Sermon on the Mount was a sermon that took place most of the day but has been shortened by the gospel writers. Jesus spent His entire ministry teaching exhaustively so that people would come to a right knowledge of Him in order to produce a relationship with Him.

I also believe that a woman’s role in the Church is not a fine point in theology but a very important point in theology. I read your thoughts on it on Joy’s site, because I’m sure you thought it was important to talk about. So therefore, I responded to your comments. I admire your desire and pursuit to learn more and that is the quality of every true disciple of Christ. I also have that desire. And having these discussions are for the purpose of learning as well.

sincerely, albert

Heather

Thanks for your comments on my site,I responded back….