February 27, 2005
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I am going to try and post some pictures of myself and my family in New York City that we took today, it will come later or tomorrow after my husband edits them.
I wanted to share a bit more of my spiritual history with you.
When I married my husband I was a full-fledged pagan, and that was what attracted him to me. He was Catholic but not practicing. He did not start going to church until after our first son was born and he decided that he wanted to bring our children up Catholic.
Now to be honest, I went to church with him at his insistence. I hated every moment of it, and for all that good that my attendance did, I got nothing out of church but learning how to kneel and stand and sit at the right moments and the hand gestures. Since crossing yourself was an occult practice, I had to unlearn the direction of the crossing and cross the correct way. But resentment did not make for much worship of God at all. In fact I can safely say that I only said the rote prayers, no heart behind them, no talking with God any other time. In fact I never gave God even a second of my spare time. I am sorry to say that I did not treat God with the kind of respect He deserved, and that I squandered so many years in my anger at God. If there was anything I could take back, this is one period of my life I wish I had used more wisely.
Unfortunately, my husband did and does not have much patience with the rigamarole of dealing with religious ed classes, bad guided meditations, paper work, and keeping the kids up to date with the homework and prayers and practices, so that fell on my shoulders. I sat through so many meetings that literally drove me up a wall.
During this time a priest convinced me to convert to Catholicism since I was learning about the stuff at the same times that the kids were. as I had been a Luthern it was not much of a stretch. So I did that to keep family as all one religion, but at that time I was still pew sitting and stewing.
My husband, was literally the one who began to bring me back to church. During this time I sat through an atrocious Bible study given by the priest, which was more like a travel log of his trips around the Holy Land, not much about the Bible. A friend recommened her Friday Bible study. So I started going, and it was there that I met Pastor Don. I sat in on his study for about two years. The first year was the book of Romans. Let me tell you that when you are angry at God, Romans is a very difficult book to study.
Sometimes in those two years, Pastor Don and I started talking. It took me two years of talking with him (not that he didn’t encourage me to say the sinner’s prayer) before I dared say the sinner’s prayer. I know that at times my posts still show doubt, and at times some sort of outrage for some things in my past, but compared to what it was like, it is very watered down now. Pastor Don promised me that he would be consistent with me, unlike those who hurt me so much in the past. He has been very consistent and loving. His wife and children show me that he is honest in his walk with the Lord, and he loves his wife and children very much. His consistency, and the fact that he never let the other shoe drop, finally began to penetrate some of the anger that I had. We started seriously going over things in my past. Fortunately Pastor Don is also a counselor, so a lot of garbage got cleared up, still more to go though. I began to see God in a very different light. The several times I have read through the Bible began to show me a God who is way more loving, and now I have a hunger to know him as Abba. Had Pastor Don attacked my beliefs directly I would have labeled him a hypocrite or worse and walked away. Instead he lovingly showed me in the Bible and through other literature exactly how satan tricked me in the ways that I was thinking and believing.
After about two years I was able to say the sinner’s prayer and in obedience to God got baptized. Well, over time my life has changed dramatically, and I asked Pastor Don what should I do about my husband who is Catholic. My sister-in-law is born again and she, her husband, and kids are very confrontational with my husband about his faith. So much so that my husband started mocking born again’s. He stopped listening to them and ignored what they were saying. Not much fruit in that.
Pastor Don told me to be an obedient wife, go to church with my husband, raise the kids as he directs and let my life be an example, but to not preach. So I continued Bible studies and when we moved from Romans into Corinthians and Galatians, I told my husband that the Bible says that he is the spiritual head of the family, and as such I must obey him, that Pastor Don says that a wife must submit to her husband. I realize that that is submission in the sense of the husband must love the wife the way Christ loves the church, but my husband then said, “I like this pastor.” When questions about religion came up, I turned them over to my husband, and he answered the kids very Biblically. Sometimes I would share something I learned at Bible study with my husband, but never in a preachy or condemning manner. Another year or so, and I kept inviting my husband to the Friday Bible studies, but never pushing, never preaching. Still went to mass with my husband, and just loved him. My husband came to Bible studies, and for over a year has consistently attended and insisted the kids attend. At some point he decided to do CD’s of the studies for people and Pastor Don mentioned Brother Jim’s CD ministry. Jim took it seriously and then found out that there was a Tuesday Bible study and has added that to his ministry. Last Tuesday Pastor Don lead the sinner’s prayer and my husband prayed the prayer, not up at the altar, but standing by me in the first row of the church. I was so overjoyed.
I spoke with my pastor recently and he told me that my husband is close to a breakthrough, to keep doing what I am doing (or not doing as it is) that the Holy Spirit is working mightily. My kids have all said the sinner’s prayer. Now my husband does not pray to statues, does not agree that Mary is to be worshipped, and is beginning to be upset with the fact that communion is only the bread, not the bread and wine. He has begun to look at things Biblically. I listen, but still make few comments, (he is the spiritual head of the family). Sometimes it is hard to do this, but at the same time I do not want to have to answer to God for putting a stumbling block of offense in front of my husband and driving him away. God is attracting him. I know it took me over two years before I could say the sinner’s prayer, so I assume that it is fair that I wait for my husband.
This said, there is a belief in some church circles that there are not many spirit filled Catholics. I beg to differ about that as I have met some. I think that in every church, even those claiming to be spirit filled, that not every member is spirit filled. They may act like they are, but only God knows their hearts. I think that in each and every church and tradition there are some believers that are spirit filled and that God is bridging the gap between churches and denominations and looking for people to worship him in Spirit and truth. Not necessarily any denomination. I would also venture to say that every single denomination has some traditions that have grown up with that denomination, and some misinterpretation of the Bible. I suspect we will never know the whole truth until our whole fleshly bodies are gone and we are before the throne. Then we will see the whole truth of God clearly, not through a glass darkly.
As far as winning souls, I don’t think Jesus ever came point blank to a sinner or a mis-directed person in ire to convert them. Instead he loved them, led them, and gently ministered to them. The ones he came down hard on were the scribes and pharasises and priests who should have known better. Who should have recognized him as Messiah. Jesus won people over with love. That does not mean that he tolerated sin or wrong thinking, but at the same time, he enticed people through his parables and stories and his way of life to begin to become more aware of the truth. The truth is way more powerful than lies, and more souls are won with love than are ever won in debates, arguments and disrespect.
This may not be a popular concept to some, and I have to say that for me and my situation the way I have been dealing with this is producing fruit. If confrontation produces fruit in another person, that is fine too.
Now another statement that is shared is to not be unequally yoked. We studied that once in Bible study, and at one point my husband and I were unequally yoked when he was practicing his faith and I was fuming. The scales are shifting now, but I would never ever consider leaving my husband because of his beliefs. He is faithful, true, and a loving husband and father. I would rather fight by love to win him than to leave him because we disagree.
There are so many Christian churches out there that believe that there is only one right and true way, their way. And all others are false. We have so many enemies that are not Christian that it saddens me to see that we tear each other apart. The enemies tear us apart and we sometimes cause more harm to each other than the enemy does to us. The enemy can sit back and watch us take pot shots at each other. Why not study and read the Word. The Spirit of God will lead us to truth as we keep pursuing Him. If we seek ways to teach and share in love I think a lot would be resolved.
I wish I could be clearer on this, for I feel that I am not sharing all my thoughts on this. But I don’t know how to express more. I was saddened reading another site I used to subscribe to and saw such vitriolic anger at Catholics. And it was that kind of anger and animosity that caused me to realize that I wanted to let you know that I can’t feel that way, and why.
Each is entitled to handle their situations the way they see fit, but I would suggest to check the fruit. If the fruit is salvation that is good, if it hardens a person’s heart and causes them to stop listening, perhaps a different tactic would be helpful if the real purpose is to reach the lost.
Heather
Comments (18)
Oh Heather that was just so beautifully put and I realize more than ever what a kindred spirit you are to me. We were talking about love in our Bible Study friday night, and the bottom line is that love is what makes the world go around and without love we are just clanging symbols. The bible is so clear on this. Gentleness brought my husband to the point where he accepted Christ into a heart and body that was in the world and in so much pain. Drugs, alcohol and so much pain from past abuse didnt stop him from seeing the love in these Christian men and wanting what they had. God has given Tim love and he has spent his life trying to show others that same love. Unfortunetly for Tim his brokeness from past abuse goes so deep that he is at this time unable to be whole. But God loves him the same. The only thing that keeps Tim going is love. God’s love, my love our kids love and our friends love. Without love and patience and compassion he could not exist. I know that there are so many out there that are just like Tim, who are just looking for someone to stay with them and love them and not leave them. Tims greatest fear is that if he gets to know and trust someone, that they will leave him as so many have in his life. It is such a beautiful thing that Pastor Don did for you. And you are now doing that same thing with others. Hmmmmmm I guess you could call that discipleship!
I have learned so much from you about the Bible and life. You have enriched my life so much and made me a better person. Thank you.
With much love and admiration,
Marlene
Heather…thank you so so much for writing this.
“The truth is way more powerful than lies, and more souls are won with love than are ever won in debates, arguments and disrespect.”
…so true so true…
I have some advice to ask of you because I really think that you could help me with that. I have a dear and precious friend, Rachel. She was important in brining me to the Lord. She was sent to love me when I did not believe anyone could. I was a dirty and broken girl and she still seemed to be able to love me. She was sensitive to the spirit and read me scriptures even though she did not know why she was reading them, but they were precisely what my heart needed…and slowly God’s love broke down the walls that years of hurt and lies about myself had built up. Because of her continually sharing the Lord’s love with me and scripture I was finally able to break my silence and share about my rapes and subsequent promescuity and all the things that I thought kept me from ever being able to be loved by God much less His people. My life was drastically altared by that point.
…but now, my dear friend has gone back to Catholocism. This move has broken my heart because I do not feel connected to her any more. Spiritually she has gone to a place that believes that I cannot experience the mercy of the Lord because I cannot accept the Eucharist. All she talks about is the eucharist and I asked her one day if she believes that I cannot experience that peace and mercy with the lord because I cannot accpet the eucharist…after a heart breaking pause she said that she wasn’t sure. If she keeps in with the church she will ultimately believe that i cannot go into heaven….and I KNOW that I am a christian and am going to heaven and growing in the love and truth of the Lord…I just do not understand why I have to be alienated from the very person who showed me the Lord….
…what do I do?
Lauren
You have an amazing testimony. Being that quiet woman of God is a rare thing to see today. I hope your husband travels well on the rocky road of being a new beleiver.
I still am praying for my parents. I had to submit to them in highschool when I wasn’t allowed to go to church. I would have bible studies at school and afterschool with friends. I learned how to lead an “underground church”. My parents saw my faith. They are still really confused but they are learning and trying. It is a tough road. I can’t say I didn’t sometimes get overwhelmed and argue with them. It was amazing that they let me attend a Christian University.
It is amazing to me how awesome you are in the sharing of your faith and caring. HPU it seems that your parents are seeing a change in you, and that change will do so much to convincing them that you are not involved in something bizzare. I think at times it is hard to not speak out, and there are times when I see blatent things that I know are not Biblical, but I also know that my husband is reading the Bible and is learning, so He will be won over by the Word way more than any of my paltry words will ever do. The Word of God will not come back void.
Lauren, praying for your friend is a good beginning, something like Ephesians 1. Funny story, at first Pastor Don had me praying Ephesians 1 for my husband, putting his name into the scripture in appropriate places, such as the eyes of Jim’s understanding be opened. But then it turned out that I was the one who had to have my name in Ephesians 1 for a season as my eyes got more opened to God. I don’t know your friend, but one thing that I was wondering is if she keeps seeking for something that is impacting in her life. I know that when I was into the occult nothing really filled the needs I had so I went from cult to cult to cult, I guess much the same way as some people go from church to church to church. When things get tough some people move to a new church, and then find the same problems, because the problem really wasn’t the church. If she is focusing on the tangibles of the Catholic church, maybe there is a need for more of a feeling of the presence of God or something like that. Sometimes rituals can be very comforting. I think that just keep sharing the excitement and joy of the Lord that you are finding, without preaching against something will do more to draw a person. People are attracted to excitement and joy, and if you share that over the Word of God, then that pulls people. But I do not know your friend, so you would know more if the above is something that is true for her. I am praying, and again, I sincerely believe that there are Catholics who are saved. Oh, they may do things that are not Biblical, but then so do I and everyone else.
Marlene, I know that you and I are kindred spirits, and I so value your friendship. I am glad Tim has a safe haven in you and your children, but I also know the cost to you. My love and prayers are with you always.
Heather
I believe you are right-on!!! That is what the Lord showed me to do also when I moved back to Louisiana 5 yrs ago. He told me to go in the “ditches” and love those people out of there. It’s not what you quote, but what you live that will make a difference to the unsaved.
This is very beautifully expressed. My aunt and friend who happen to be members of the Roman Catholic Church are some of the most wonderful Christians I know.
WHAT about the the MEN RAPING little boys in the CATHOLIC CHURCH……………………….curious…………………how anyone could be apart of this?……………..my bf was one of those boys at one time…now in counseling.
HOW MANY BISHOPS ETC……are in courts or prisons…or just awaiing trials…………..for RAPING boys……………………..100s……………………….!
THATS AN ABOMINATION TO GOD………………………..SORRY…..
THE CATHOLICS ARE DISTORTED……………..in thier thinking………..and thier practices………….WOULD GOD DO THIS TO THE CHILDREN….NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO…………
I PRAY FOR THE SALVATION OF MANY OF THEM. AMEN
When it happens to someone YOU know then may be you all will open your eyes and see the truth……………………….amen
Robin, it happens in other churches as well. I did not say that I agree with all that goes on in the Catholic church, but in every single denomination there are those who do evil, it is not case specific to Catholics. The Bible says, be sure your sins will find you out. I still feel that the best way to win souls is to love, not condemn or confront. What is the goal? I too am happy that child abusers are being found out, and believe it or not that is one of the facts that pushed my husband to being able to look more objectively at the Catholic church. But hate will not accomplish anything, and frankly I think hate stops any meaningful conversation that could lead to salvation.
Heather
One other comment, in these end times God is going to make sure that those who are in authority, priests and pastors are held accountable for their sins. I predict that there will be a lot of unveiling of secret sins, and many of the things that pastors got away with in the past will be exposed. So I wouldn’t be surprised to see things across the board becoming unveiled.
And as far as child abuse, you should know me well enough to know that I was sexually abused horribly as a child, and the liberation that happened for me happened when I could begin to forgive my abuser. It burdened me to hold the hatred more than the forgiving of my abuser. So I was not happy to hear about the abuse of children by the Catholic church, but then Beth Moore wrote a whole book about her abuse at the hands of someone in the church, and her church is not Catholic.
People will judge a person’s message by the way it is delivered. God’s love cannot be shared by angry and hurtful and condemning words. Perhaps confrontation is good if it is your last ditch attempt at winning a soul and the nice approaches do not work, but it should not be our standard way of dealing with people in sin.
I am praying for you Robin, because to have such a knee-jerk reaction to something usually means that there is a tremendous hurt around the area. I am praying that you find the peace in the situation.
By the way, my pastor has attended funeral masses held for neighbors and friends. He obviously did not take communion or buy into the errors of the mass, but he felt it was important to support his neighbors and friends by his presence and a few comforting words, he considered that more important than disagreement with doctrine. Just a thought.
I will not put up with Catholic bashing on my site and will delete posts if they are full of hate. I do not mind comments and doctrinal arguments, but will not deal with angry posts.
Heather
I’d like to say more, but I’m just going to say I really appreciate you sharing from the heart. This is a powerful testimony, and there are plenty of people who need to hear it. Thanks.
I thoroughly enjoyed reading your testimony. I can see it was written from your heart. People don’t need more sermons – they need to see examples – witnesses – to God’s love and the power of the Holy Spirit working in them. God bless you and your family. Carolyn . . . how does that verse go . . . they will know that we are His by our love for others…
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.” Galatians 5:22-23
I can see the fruit of the Holy Spirit in you. You are truly blessed.
WELL HEATHER I am SORRY I reacted……as you know I TOO WAS TORTURED AND ABUSED and ……my boyfriend was an alter boy who was abused for 10 years by his bishop!
and I did react…..but……………………….it doesnt change MY VIEWS….
I am not angry at you…………what you said is YOUR view and its great.
I am angry at the things that go on inside the church itself……………NOT just the one thing I POSTED…yes I have lived inside the CATHOLIC religion for 7 years now……………………not practicing .but there are others in my household who practice it…so I KNOW ALOT about the church…I AM JUST A LOVER OF GOD.. BUT the beliefs of the religion itself has caused much division in my relationship………..its distorted………..and I will pray for you…..cause that is what its really about GOD…NOT the religion…beliefs….practices……..GOD…….thats the reason I wouldnt go to a funeral I WAS being MADE to do soemthing because of a BELIEF…how wrong is THAT……………………
Sorry I wont post again………….I am a woman of GOD but I wont let the DEVIL attack me through your SITE again……….amen
Praying for you Robin. Wish you weren’t hurting so.
Heather
Well, very interesting reading indeed. I have so many comments running through my mind, so I’ll try to be concise, something most foreign to me.
You and I have followed similar paths in life it seems. From Abuse, to the occult, experience with Catholicism, Being Born Again, inspiring our husband’s to a full relationship with Christ, seeing the true Divinity in forgiveness, learning that “Love conquers hate – Always.”
Your testimony is full of such good fruit of the Spirit; exactly as we are directed in the Bible. I think about how our Father sees man’s religion, He must think all of our man made religion is flawed, because it is. I always told our children, “Man’s laws will always change; God’s law never does.”
I personally understand RobinBoBoppin ’s pain and anguish but I also know that she is allowing her anger to stand between herself and Jesus The Christ and what He came to Earth to teach us. I hope and pray that she will read the Words in red. Blindness has no reserve on any one denomination, neither does evil. We have a saying in our home, the devil will use anything to take our eyes off Jesus, because if he can succeed in that, he’s won the battle. Anger, hatred, pain, resentment and confusion have all taken her eyes off Jesus and the devil is winning. I know that God loves her but it distresses me to know that she is so full of hate and in so much agony. I hope and pray that she and her boyfriend will realize that the Only path to God is in forgiveness. It Is the foundation of Christianity and the Word of God. Matthew 5 :43-48
Matthew 6 , Matthew 18:35 , Luke 6:36-38 John 20:22-24 Mark 11:24-27
On a lighter note, have you heard the old joke about the man who gets to Heaven and St. Peter is showing him around. It’s the Baptist over there and the Methodist over here, there’s the Nazarenes. Then they come to a wall and the man can’t see over or around the wall, so he ask St. Peter, “Who’s behind that wall?”. St. Peter says, “Be Quite, that’s the _________ denomination. They don’t know anyone else is up here!”
I change it around depending on the denomination of the people I’m telling the joke to, and always insert their denomination in the blank to show them that there are no perfect Christians, and no perfect denominations.
There was one part of your story which I am curious about, however. Are you saying that non Christians are going to Heaven also?
Your writing sounds very familar, what was your previous site name?
I enjoyed visiting. Thanks for your comments, how did you find my site, I am always curious.
Luke 7:36-50
Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”
opps!!
I just went back and read your comment again and realized I missed the part about how you got to my site……..Sorry!
So now I must ask you how you came to Ponder_ing’s site? LOL
Dear Eternal sojourner, this is my first and only Xanga site, I have never had one before or blogged before, and no, I do not believe that non Christians will get to Heaven, but then I am not God, and God is the final judge of that. But according to the Bible there is only one way to Heaven and that is through the Blood of the Lamb.
As far as finding sites, when I first came to Xanga a few people came to my site, and I researched a few Christian sites to see what was good. If I found a kindred soul, I subscribed, and over time watched the comments that these people received. If I liked the kindness of the commentors, or felt that they had a good Biblical perspective, then I went to the site and read a few entries, and if I liked the content and felt I could learn from the site, I subscribed.
I too like Robin and know that she has a tough time, but she right now feels that my site is from satan because of the tolerance I have toward other denominations. I know that there are some who feel that if they see a truth, it is the truth and anyone who disagrees is in error. I fully admit that I am still learning, and have much to learn, and may have error in thinking. But I am under a Pastor who is awesome, speak with him one to one confessing the good, the bad and the ugly and learning more about God, I pray read the word and study. I wish my relationship with God was more what I would want, but I am growing. In our discipleship training at church, we have been taught to listen, and not be confrontational. People will not listen to confrontation, but will be more receptive if they feel they are heard, understood and loved.
Because my husband’s salvation is of paramont importance to me, I followed my pastor’s directive, and it is bearing fruit. I believe that others may have methods that work for them, I can only be a fruit tester with what God has given into my hand to do.
Heather
This is a wonderful post. I’m sorry it took me so long to get around to reading it…I wanted to give it attention. Thanks for being so willing to share.
And I have to say…I’m amazed at your love for others. That’s what we’re continually striving for…loving God and loving others…but it’s the hardest thing to do, especially when people are being hateful or rude. If my opinion counts, I don’t sense ANYTHING from Satan coming through you or your writings, and I commend you for how you are handling your commentors.
Thanks for the wrist slap…I needed it. I try to encourage tolerance of each other’s views, but sometimes get caught up in my own as well.
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