Anna – Why is the Jewish calendar off by 250 years? You said it was intentional. Is that the period of the judges which is off, or the Egyption captivity? I’m very curious. It is one of the questions which has plagued me for a very long time.

Heather – I found something interesting a while back about the “third day” and the resurrection. Most people think Jesus died on Friday since the next day was a ‘sabbath.’ The thing it, the first day of passover is a sabbath also. It falls on a different day of the week each year. My research indicates on the year of the crucifixion this was a Thursday. This means Christ was crucified on Wednesday afternoon. He was in the tomb from before dusk Wednesday through early Sunday morning. That makes the days Thur, Fri, and Sat 3 full days. The argument for a Friday death is based on the false understanding of the Jewish idiom “third day” which does not mean the same thing as the English interpretation. If he died on Friday, then Sat is the 2nd day and Sun is the 3rd day as we would reckon it. By Jewish usage of the term, however, it would be the day following the end of a period of 3 days (see Esther for a common example). Jesus quoted the sign of Jonah and said he would lie in the tomb 3 full days. So there could be no mistake as to Jewish or Roman time he was placed in the tomb before sunset Wed. and rose after midnight on Sunday – the “third day” by proper use of the Jewish language. Sorry if I’m rambling, but I thought you might like to know.

Snowberry,

Thanks for the question. I’ll answer it here and also on your site in case you don’t get back this way soon. First, since I’m at the office right now I don’t have all my notes with me on this. I may come back with more details, and if you can explain better why Friday is right and Wednesday is wrong, I’m all ears. I appreciate that you are a messianic Jew and I’m sure you are more familiar with Jewish calendars and customs than I am. That said… Here’s at least part of what I base this on:

1. While it isn’t known precisely when Jesus was born, it is known precisely the year he died. It would be on our modern calendars the spring of 30 AD.

2. Lev 23:3 says the 7th day of the week (Saturday) is a Sabbath. The weekly Sabbath is not the only Sabbath.

3. Lev 23:4-8 defines the Feast of Unleaven Bread. The first day of the “feast” is the 15th day of the 6th month (Nissan if I recall on modern Jewish calendars). In what we would reckon as 30 AD this was in fact measured from Wed evening at dusk until Thursday evening at dusk on the week of the crucifixion.

4. Lev 23:7 defines the first day of this feast as a Sabbath. The last day of this feast week is also a Sabbath (Lev 23:8), though it is not relavent to the crucifixion.

5. Mt 12:40 Jesus says in very clear terms he would be in the earth 3 days and 3 nights as the Sign of Jonah. Jesus wouldn’t have lied, so he must have meant it when he said 3 days and 3 nights. This would not have been possible with a Friday afternoon death and Sunday morning resurrection – two nights and one day.

6. Jonah 1:17 Jonah was inside the fish 3 days and 3 nights.

7. It is my understanding that the day preceeding Passover is the day when they eat the meal. It is known as Preparation Day. Normally, from what I understand, this meal would be eaten in the afternoon before dusk when it becomes the first day of passover. Technically, however, Jesus could have had this meal any time up to dusk of the preceeding day which was Tuesday evening (after dusk).

8. Mk14:12-16 The disciples prepared the passover meal, which included a sacrificed lamb. During the week of the Feast of Unleaven Bread they would not have been permitted to eat meat (Lev 23 again). The sacrifice and the meal must have eaten on the preparation day (14th).

9. Mk 15:42 clearly identifies the day of the crucifixion as Preparation Day. In context you will see this verse occurs immediately following the death of Jesus on the cross just before Joseph takes the body for burial. It also identifies this day as the day immediately prior to Sabbath, and even specifies this Sabbath as the 1st day of the Feast of Unleaven Bread, which we already identified as a Thursday on this week.

10. If Jesus was entombed by dusk on Wednesday he would have been in the tomb all of Wed night, Thu night, Fri night, and most of Sat night. He would have been in the tomb all of Thu, Fri, and Sat.

I can find no other explanation and there are verses in every gospel that correspond with what I quoted from Mark and Matthew. I am open to hearing another explanation, but good luck convincing me.

That is so funny about your cat.

Goodness Heather, we really are hijacking your comment section, aren’t we?  I wanted to respond to the Professor here because this is where the context of the conversation is.  Hope you’re having a good time with all of it.  *hee hee*

Dear Professor,
     First I want to thank you for bringing a different perspective to reading scripture.  We often miss so much because we read with implied traditions already in our heads and sometimes forget to be open to what God is trying to tell us.  I like breaking out of traditional readings if they are going to hinder my understanding.  I understand not all “new” ways of reading scripture are appropriate, but sometimes a fresh perspective helps.
     No matter what I say, here are some things that we can definitely agree on, that Jesus was crucified on the 14th day of the first month during the Passover and that he rose from the dead on the first day of the following week, Sunday morning.  It reminds me of a funny interview I had once when applying for a job at a grocery store.  I told the manager about certain days I would need off for church, including Maundy Thursday, Good Friday and Easter Sunday (all Sundays, but that’s beside the point).  He asked if I could work that Saturday.  I replied, “Yeah, I guess so.  Jesus was dead that day.”  The manager was Jewish …and I got the job.
     Though I am a Messianic Jew, I was raised in the church, and only embraced my heritage after my last link to it disappeared, when my grandmother died in 1998.  So I may not know any more than you.  I read Hebrew like a kindergartener – I can sound out words and may recognize a few every once in a while, but for the most part, I have no clue what I’m reading if not for the context.  And I have never had any formal study of religion, so anything I do have has been given through prayer for wisdom and understanding.  I do not want to get a feeling that there is a disagreement a-brewing, so if I come off that way at any time, please let me know; I would just like to clarify a few things.  For one, pre-Talmudic scripture reading and post-Talmudic scripture reading are very different as far as the Jewish people are concerned.  Unfortunately for the Jewish people, the Talmud replaced God as the standard by which His word is read and interpreted.  It contains the oral codes that Jesus so furiously fought against, but in their eyes, it has become more important than scripture itself.  So sad, really.
     For the Jewish people, the new day starts in the evening at sundown (and there was evening and there was morning the first day –Genesis 1:5).  Therefore, all the feasts start the evening before, but it is considered the same day (i.e. Erev Shabbath is Friday night after sundown but is still the day of Shabbath).  Another thing is the mix-up with Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread.  It seems like one festival but is actually two.  Here are the Seven Feasts of Israel in the Torah:
     1 – Shabbath (Lev 23:3, et. al.) 7th day of every week, a day of rest before the Lord
     2 – Pesach (Exo 12:6, 14; Lev 23:4-5; Num 28:16) 14th day of first month (Abib in Exo/Nisan in Neh); 1 day; eat Passover meal in evening and leave nothing until morning, burn leftovers in fire  (Exo 12:10); remove all leaven from household
     3 – Matzoth (Exo 12:15-20; Lev 23:6-8; Num 28:17-25) 15th day of first month; 7 days with 1st and 7th days holy convocation, no laborious work; eat only unleavened dough; did not find anything that says meat cannot be eaten, just no leavening and no leftovers from Passover meal; also the Hebrew word Shabbath is not used in Lev 23:7 or 8 to describe rest (more in a moment)
     4 – Shavuoth (Lev 23:9-21; Num 28:26-31) no specified day (more on this in a moment); 1 day holy convocation, no laborious work, countdown of 7 weeks actually begins 50 days earlier with a wave offering before the Lord on the day after the Sabbath during the Feast of Unleavened Bread.  If the Sabbath in verse 11 was referring to the first day of the feast, i.e. the 15th of every year, then Shavuoth would fall on the same date 50 days later every year.  There are a couple of problems with this: 1) if the counting started on the 16th of the first month every year, but 7 full Sabbaths have to be counted, then it wouldn’t always be 50 days every year, or 2) if exactly 50 days are counted from the 16th every year, then most years a complete cycle of 7 Sabbaths would not be counted.  The day after the Sabbath referred to to raise the grain offering and begin the counting is not the 16th of every year, as the Jewish people count it now, but the Sunday within the Feast of Unleavened Bread.  Since the Sunday would be a different date every year, God did not specify a date for Shavuoth.
     5 – Yom T’ruah (Lev 23:24-25; Num 29:1-6) 1st day of 7th month (despite Jewish tradition of calling it the Head of the Year); 1 day (despite Jewish tradition of 2 days); blowing shofar; holy convocation, Sabbath rest
     6 – Yom Kippur (Lev 23:27-32; Num 29:7-11) 10th day of 7th month; 1 day; atonement sacrifice; holy convocation, Sabbath rest
     7 – Sukkoth (Lev 23:34-43; Num 29:12-38) 15th day of 7th month; 8 days; live in booths (or tents … really fun); 1st and 8th day holy convocation, Sabbath rest
Notice, I only found the term “Sabbath rest” in the Hebrew in conjunction with the feasts of the Seventh month.
     See, Jesus would have eaten the Passover meal on the Eve of the 14th of Nisan after sundown.  He was arrested that night and was executed that day, still the 14th of Nisan (though for us it seems like two separate days of the week).  That they called it the day of preparation, I think was referring to the preparation of the Sabbath (Friday during the day) because on preparation day, the house must be made spotless and a double-portion of the meal is to be cooked because there is no cooking on the Sabbath day.  Also no fire is to be lit on the Sabbath (so why one of the blessings is that God commanded to light the Sabbath lights, I don’t know), so during colder weather, the fire was burning hot before sundown.  You mentioned Mark 15:42 and said it specifically refers to the Sabbath day as being the first day of Unleavened Bread, but I did not see the feast specifically mentioned.  Here I wish I could read Greek because I know that English does not always convey the meanings of scripture very well (like the plurality of the Godhead in the Hebrew Old Testament).  John 19:31 talks of the Pharisees wanting the bones broken because it was the day of preparation and “the day of that Sabbath was great.”  I always took that verse to be referring to the fact th
at it was the Sabbath during the Feast, the day after which, the priests were to wave the grain offering of the first fruits of the barley harvest.  Anyway, here is where I run into trouble with translation:
     Matthew said Joseph of Arimathea came “when it was evening” (27:57); Mark 15:42 states, “and when evening had already come” which would mean the beginning of the Sabbath was already upon them, unless they were trying to give the sense of urgency there was in getting Jesus into the tomb quickly; but Luke 23:54 says, “and it was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin” which seems to correspond closer to what John says.  Even then they were cutting it close as it says in verse 56, “And on the Sabbath day they rested according to the commandment.”
     I will not try to convince you of anything, because, as you can see, I do not fully understand all that these verses in the gospels are saying about Jesus’ burial.  I know they have to match up; it is just a matter of how do they match up.  I can’t take more time right this moment to look into it because it is already after 5AM and I have to be awake by 8:30 to get my son to an appointment at 10 (I must be crazy to still be up, but I got home from work late).  In the end, the exact day of the week and how “third day” is interpreted will not make or break my faith, but it is always good to know the facts, and how our history and God’s eternity collided for a few brief shining moments.  Thank you for an awesome discussion. </P%

Heather – Thanks for your patience as we use your site for this very fun debate.

Indeed, Snowberry, you make a good case. And ultimate Heather is right that the most important thing is that Jesus did in fact rise from the grave, defeating Hell and the Grave, and proving what he said. I agree this is a contrivercial subject. I’m glad you were not offended. This is one of those things I’ve always had a problem with and always believed in spite of – not because of.

The things I’ve believed over the years have been forcibly changed more than once. This one wasn’t easy for me, either. Since they didn’t have names for the days of the week back then, we don’t have an obvious answer. I always took it on faith because people always said it was a Friday death. The CATHOLIC church established “Good Friday.” I’ve learned to distrust Catholic doctrine (not Catholic people). Martin Luther was a very smart man.

When I learned it might be true that Christ was “in the earth” for 3 full days and nights it really stunned me because I always thought that was the case, that the Fri-Sun thing just didn’t make sense, but it ran counter to everything I was always taught. Jesus’ own statements are very clear he would be buried 3 FULL days and nights. If you agree that he died on 14 Nisan, then you have only to research a Calendar for that year to find 14 Nisan fell on Wed of 30 AD.

You have inspired me to make an entry on my site about this subject. I welcome you to bring futher discussion on this over there, if you like. I’m only going to check this post if you tell me there’s something specific here (thanks for doing that so far – I’ve really gotten a lot from this). I want to post this to see what else people come up with on the subject so that I can learn more. I wanted you to understand this motivation and not think I’m just posting stuff willy-nilly without regard to what you’ve said.

Lastly, I want to tell you that “FKIProfessor” is a nickname. I work for a company called “FKI Security Group” and I do factory training classes here. Hence the nickname. I don’t have any “formal” theological training. I came across this info about 3-days in an old book. I doubted it until I read the references several times, cross checked each gospel, and did a few hours of research on the internet about Jewish calendars and such. It was very confusing between the difference in midnight vs dusk and the difference in when the Jewish year starts – and even so far as the “debate” about which month starts a new Jewish year. You provided a wealth of information which I will read again and cherrish. I know a lot less about Jewish culture than I should for these types of discussions. I look forward to continued dialogue on this and any other subject of interest. TTFN – be blessed.

Hey girl, well, I’m certainly glad you realized there was a way provided for you, and that suicide was a lie. I’ve never gone through a long period of that kind of darkness, God be praised, but I have had the thoughts a few times when things got rough… But God, in His manifold mercies, has always been here… I’ve always felt Him, almost like you can feel a person sitting next to you. I’m always in His company, and He’s always got His band on me… Not just me, though… You, and every person in existence. When I think about that, my thoughts seem so small, and I realize yet again that He’s bigger than our human mind’s can comprehend. I’m so glad you got a chance to care for the kid in your sewing class. I just got a forward from someone, and I usually skim through them or delete them, but I read one and it reminded me of your sewing class situation, so I figured I’d attach part of it here for you…

One day, when I was a freshman in high school, I saw a kid from my class was walking home from school. His name was Kyle. It looked like he was carrying all of his books. I thought to myself, “Why would anyone bring home all his books on a Friday? He must really be a nerd.” I had quite a weekend planned (parties and a football game with my friends tomorrow afternoon), so I shrugged my shoulders and went on. As I was walking, I saw a bunch of kids running toward him. They ran at him, knocking all his books out of his arms and tripping him so he landed in the dirt. His glasses went flying, and I saw them land in the grass about ten feet from him. He looked up and I saw this terrible sadness in his eyes. My heart went out to him. So, I jogged over to him and as he crawled around looking for his glasses, and I saw a tear in his eye. As I handed him his glasses, I said, “Those guys are jerks. They really should get lives. ” He looked at me and said, “Hey thanks!” There was a big smile on his face. It was one of those smiles that showed real gratitude. I helped him pick up his books, and asked him where he lived. As it turned out, he lived near me, so I asked him why I had never seen him before. He said he had gone to private school before now. I would have never hung out with a private school kid before. We talked all the way home, and I carried some of his books. He turned out to be a pretty cool kid.
I asked him if he wanted to play a little football with my friends. He said yes. We hung out all weekend and the more I got to know Kyle, the more I liked him, and my friends thought the same of him. Monday morning came, and there was Kyle with the huge stack of books again. I stopped him and said, “Boy, you are gonna really build some serious muscles with this pile of books everyday! “He just laughed and handed me half the books. Over the next four years, Kyle and I became best friends. When we were seniors, we began to think about college. Kyle decided on Georgetown, and I was going to Duke. I knew that we would always be friends, that the miles would never be a problem. He was going to be a doctor, and I was going for business on a football scholarship. Kyle was valedictorian of our class. I teased him all the time about being a nerd. He had to prepare a speech for graduation. I was so glad it wasn’t me having to get up there and speak… Graduation day, I saw Kyle. He looked great. He was one of those guys that really found himself during high school. He filled out and actually looked good in glasses. He had more dates than I had and all the girls loved him. Boy, sometimes I was jealous. Today was one of those days. I could see that he was nervous about his speech. So, I smacked him on the back and said, “Hey, big guy, you’ll be great!” He looked at me with one of those looks (the really grateful one) and smiled. “Thanks,” he said. As he started his speech, he cleared his throat, and began. “Graduation is a time to thank those who helped you make it through those tough years. Your parents, your teachers, your siblings, maybe a coach…but mostly your friends… I am here to tell all of you that being a friend to someone is the best gift you can give them. I am going to tell you a story.” I just looked at my friend with disbelief as he told the story of the first day we met. He had planned to kill himself over the weekend. He talked of how he had cleaned out his locker so his Mom wouldn’t have to do it later and was carrying his stuff home. He looked hard at me and gave me a little smile. “Thankfully, I was saved. My friend saved me from doing the unspeakable.” I heard the gasp go through the crowd as this handsome, popular boy told us all about his weakest moment. I saw his Mom and dad looking at me and smiling that same grateful smile. Not until that moment did I realize it’s depth.
 
Never underestimate the power of your actions. With one small gesture you can change a person’s life. For better or for worse, God puts us all in each other’s lives to impact one another in some way.

So that’s it, hope you enjoyed it… I pray everything is well with you!

Audra, Nehemiah 9:6