January 31, 2005

  • Currently reading: The Relentless Tenderness of Jesus by Brennan Manning


    I suspect this book will be rather challenging for me, judging from the first few pages which have given me pause.


    Manning says, “Religion is a matter not of learning how to think about God but of actually encountering Him. Losing our illusions is painful because illusions are the stuff we live by. The Spirit of God is the great unmasker of illusions, the great destroyer of icons and idols.”….”God strips those falsehoods from us no matter how naked it may make us, because it is better to live naked in truth than closed in fantasy.”


    Ok, encountering God, how scary is that!!!! For me that does not seem to be something that will happen this eternity. I guess I encountered God when I repented my sins and got saved. But how does one encounter an elusive God after that. 


    I can enjoy the nature that He created. I can watch the Spirit move among members of the church, joy in the beauty and innocence of a child, but God encounter ME. That is one heck of a pipe dream.


    Now I am willing to admit that maybe I have a false idea of what encountering God means. I guess I would have liked to encounter God when I was a kid – you know some kind of Hero God who came down and rescued me – but that did not happen. Guess I would have liked a real presence of God, but for me imagining encountering God is like playing lets pretend or dress up.


    But given I may be wrong about encountering God, I am curious how you would define it, and how you encountered God if you are willing to share. For me, just give me the title, “Hopeless case.”


    Thanks,


    Heather

Comments (21)

  • I don’t know if this will help, but I read this article (not long) and I really enjoyed it. God is so difficult to conceptualize, even for those of us who’ve not had your difficulties in life. Maybe you should check it out. It took me about 20 minutes to read (maybe less), but it was worth the time. The Extradimensional Nature of God

  • Thank you for that site! Reminds me of the book Flatland. I appreciate this so much.

    Heather

  • Heather – thanks for stopping by. I am glad that my testimony was inspiring - it certainly is to me!! Did you get a chance to read all 3 posts that are listed on the left side of my site? The first two are mine and the third is one on my wifes site.

    God has been SO GOOD to us, and I am just thankful to Him every day that He chose to extend His healing touch to me and my family.

    Mark

  • There’s an awesome study available called “Experiencing God.” It is written by one of the guys who wrote the Left Behind series. I went through it with a small group about 3-4 years ago. It is better with a group, but can be done alone, too. It provides a great outline for ways to grow closer to God, to expose yourself to Him, and to let him show himself to you. Also a book by Peter Lord called “Hearing God.” Its a little older, but if you can find it you’ll be amazed what a little quiet time can do. The Lord wants a deep personal relationship with each of us. He speaks to us through his word (bible), through others, sometimes what we think of as a nudging or a hunch, and sometimes it is a still small voice. I’ve never heard God’s voice booming like John the Baptist, but I’m entirely certain if God needed my attention that badly he could get it. In my own experience, when I felt I was hearing the quiet and gentle voice and a very specific message, it both comforted and frightened me. My disobedience broke the communication, but now I seek to draw close to him again and I know he loves me and longs for the relationship just as I do. Love and obedience are tied together and cannot be seperated. That’s a hard pill sometimes because I like being me. I enjoy doing as I like. ADMIT – SUBMIT – COMMIT – TRANSMIT. That’s my purpose in life. I get in trouble with every one of these every day, particularly the submit part. But when you submit to his will, you have to listen to what it is so that you can do it. I will testify about the rewards when I know more about what they are, but based on the rest of what I’ve seen I have faith the rewards will be worth it.

    Be blessed. TTFN.

  • HEATHER TY for my birthday song…………that was so sweet…MAY GOD FILL WITH YOU PEACE through out this day and always with my love always…………….ROBIN

  • Hey Heather! For many years I sought an encounter with God, an experience that eluded me as searched the vast realm of spirituality in hopes of finding something Real. I thought how could a God who is suppossed to love me be so elusive? Through it all, I have discovered that He isn’t elusive at all – as a matter of fact, He is in constant pursuit of me. He passionately seeks to enounter me! So much so, that He does it through my wife, my son, my parents, and other people… also through nature and life experiences. And this actually increases my desire to encounter Him even more, on a deeper level. It’s like the Charlie Hall lyric says, “I am chasing after You, ’cause You first chased after me.”
    BE blessed!
    ~!Steve

  • Hi.  I don’t mean to be a pain, but do you realize just how erroneous half the things you read are?  First of all, Religion is the established status quo of a given belief – it is the system of the belief.  Spirituality, on the other hand, is the experience of God.  BIG difference.  The Pharisees had religion down pat, but they had no spirituality at all.  This guy is way more than a little confused.

    Second, religion is oft times THE idol, THE icon.  ((Again, think Pharisees for a prime example.))  Contradictory statements made by a non-thinking person.  Are you sure you want to read this stuff?  They aren’t teaching Truth, they’re pretzeling it into something really confusing and wrong and then making it sound like it’s from God.  Jesus preached AGAINST this kind of religious blither.

    I think you have a good heart.  I think you have a real desire to learn.  But if I were you?  I’d either stick to the Bible itself or (if you really prefer supplementals) I’d find me a good volume of Tozer.  Or Ray Comfort.  ANYTHING by Tozer or Comfort.  They expose this kind of thinking and train you to see it for yourself… while challenging you to grow in a real spirituality that is endorsed by scripture.  Seriously.  I’m worried about this crap I see you read – how are you going to be able to stand for your faith if you are taking in leaven in regular doses?

  • Not hopeless at all. I have been thinking lately trying to imagine just how big God is…it is mindblowing. Encountering the presence of God is an awesome and lifechanging experience. If you feel you have never encountered him….get in a quiet place and begin to worship him from your heart. Lift your hands to him in surrender and bow down before Him and let Him know how much you love Him and want to feel His presence, and don’t stop until He blesses you. God inhabits the praise of his people.

  • Sorrying I’m laughing.  Encountering God.  Makes God sound like an alien or a stray.  I don’t think of being with those I love and who love me as encountering them.

    This may sound odd, but it’s just what popped into my head.  I have a couple of friends who can sit on the other end of the phone and watch a movie with me.  Just like when we are sitting side by side, we don’t talk, for the most part, just watch.  We are doing something together, but if not for the phone connection between us, we would not be together.  Don’t know if that makes any sense.  Wish I could go back to bed.

  • I think I would characterize Encountering God as just living with Him every day.  Integrating him into your life and letting Him run it rather than squeezing Him in when it’s convenient (I’m guilty of that!).  Opening your heart and mind to His calling…not letting yourself be dictated by what others tell you to do (or not to do), or for that matter, what others tell you to believe.  All God wants from us is an honest and sincere heart that earnestly seeks Him.  If you’re earnestly seeking Him, He’s not going to hide.

    (oh, and Landmine Teens…hilarious!)

  • What I want in an ideal world… interesting question, indeed. More awareness and acceptance, that’s for sure.

    Yes, I’m sure a lot of it has to do with inability to find the “right” words. But they torture themselves by staring at what they can’t change and what isn’t about them as well as me by staring at what I shouldn’t have to feel ashamed of. Y’know?

    Writing a book would be cool. Heh. I don’t know. Thank you. ((Hugs))

    ((hugs))

    <3

  • I second the motion for A. W. Tozer.  The Knowledge of the Holy is one you’ll definitely benefit from. (Probably vastly more than this “Close Encounters of the God Kind” schtick.)  Andrew Murray is another spectacularly good one.  Though if you have to choose only one book to read, drop all these modern guys and go through John’s gospel a couple of times.

    Manning’s talk about “illusions” is dubious (at least without the surrounding context; I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt) because he sets up a subjective “encounter” as better than “falsehoods” that he does not specify.  That’s okay, but what’s to stop the next sentence from being about some cult?  If “encountering him” trumps “knowing about him” then you can set anything up as the definitive encounter and there is no possible response.  I must dissent.

    The question is, what is God really like?–which we can only answer based on His revelation of Himself (i.e. the Scriptures and the person of Jesus Christ).  I know what it’s like to meet with God, but I prefer to talk not about “encounters,” because that sounds like once-in-a-while occurrences.  Talking to a guy I met on the sidewalk is an “encounter.”  Jesus says, “I am with you always.”  It’s not an encounter; it’s a life lived in the fullness of His continual presence.

  • Heather….Hi!!! I feel like its been a while…I wanted to just say…you are awesome….

  • Do you have an email that I can send you something to?  I want to comment on something but cant here.

    Marlene

  • Heather read the scriptures, and just talk to God, make Him a part of every part of your life. He talks to us in many ways, through His word, through other people, through sermons, through songs, in a loud voice, in a still small voice, through nature itself. Do not look for Him in one place or one certain way, but always be aware that He will never leave you, nor forsake you, He is always there with You……..God bless you………Cd

  • I think I am deserving of the “hopeless case” title as well.  : )

  • I do have Tozer on my shelf to read, but right now need to stick with Manning. I am aware that some seem to think lowly of him, and that is ok. I think we are drawn to what we need the most. As far as reading the Bible, I don’t know if you noticed this or not, but it takes an inordinately long time for me to read a book, way longer than the few pages many of the books are. The reason for this is that most of my time is spent studying the Bible. Very little is spent in extra reading, and for three years, there was nothing but Bible studies Right now I need to deal with God’s love, but please never judge a book by what I pick out to put in my Xanga site. I am picking out things that are relating to me, but that is giving a very biased assessment of a book if you rate the book on the few things I pick out. There are issues I deal with and the books focus on those, but there are other things that I don’t point out because they are not where I am currently dealing. Most of the books cover very Biblical themes, and I do put down a book if it strikes my spirit as not biblical, but right now there are things I need to work on.

    I was in tears with my mentor today because I am so much needing to sort out trust of God issues. For those who have faith and trust in God it may seem to be odd that someone could struggle with this. Let me tell you that the mere fact that I came to God is a major miracle, and if you knew my past you would know how much of a miracle. I never gave God the time of day for 40 years and then had the impulse to read the Bible from cover to cover, twice, before I could dare to give my life to God. I never picked up a Bible in years before that, and hated church and hated God. So I have come a long way, but trust will take time.

    I wish I could have the faith that seems so easy for many of you, the opinions and direct ways of thinking spiritually, but it is not so for me. Until I get the answer to the questions that torment me, I think trust will be difficult. For those who do not know me the questions are: Why God did you NOT stop my father from raping me? Why did you not make my father love me, kill him, or kill me? Why did you not comfort me? Why did you let my mom fill up two notebooks with times, dates and what my father did to me, never once missing a time that he came to my room. Why did you not rescue me? Until I sort out these questions, I think trusting God completely to intervene in my life today is difficult.

    Heather

  • Sorry Hon,

    Hope you didn’t think I was making fun of you.  I know nothing of the book to judge one way or the other.  I just honestly started hearing those 5 notes and it made me laugh. 

    {hug}

  • Heather…
     
    I will probably have some criticize me for saying this.  But there is absolutely nothing wrong with Brennan Manning and his writing.  If those who criticize him would take the time to read his works and understand where he came from they would realize that he was a Franciscan Monk who is one of the most Godly, caring and devout men of our time.  So when he uses the word “religion” he is talking from the standpoint of his life.  That is the way he talks.  Religion to him is the passionate following of Jesus Christ with your whole heart and living your life in service to him.  He could not get any more Biblical if he tried and he is a wonderful example and teacher for those of us who are also passionate followers of Christ.  I have read most of his works and I know how beautiful, impacting and scriptural they are.  I do not feel that people should dismiss or criticize that which they have not thoroughly read.  People also need to realize that God uses different avenues of healing for different people.  As long as the writer is Biblical, God will use them to help and heal the broken, which is all of us.
     
    My husband heard Brennan Manning in person about 6 years ago and it was through that conference that he was finally released from the feeling that God did not really love him, but was somehow disappointed with him.  You know how badly Tim was abused, and Brennan was a huge part of his healing, which by the way is still taking place.
     
    So keep on keeping on dear sister.  Those of us who know you, know that you are centered in God’s word, under the care of a Church and a wonderful counseling pastor and are searching deep within yourself for healing.  I know the search is discouraging at times and frustrating, but it is a burnt offering of love to God.  He sees you and he smiles and wraps his arms around you and says you are my precious child and I love you.  I know you do not feel his love as much as you would like because of the abuse you suffered from your father, and God understands that also.  And please don’t think that we all arrived where we are easier than you, and that you are somehow lagging behind.  We each carry our own wounds, but yours go very deep and so the healing has to start very deep.  We are all at different places on our walk with God, and you are doing just fine.  I am proud of you and I admire your honesty and your gentleness.  I am honored to know you, my life is richer because of you.
     
    Love,
     Marlene

  • As much as I appreciate that response, that was a comment I copied from another site. It was not about me. I’ve been born again (PRAISE JESUS) since I was 5. Haven’t lived a perfect life since them, but the Lord’s been by my side making sure I didn’t go to far off the path.

    It was posted by

    Posted 1/29/2005 at 6:18 PM by aznbutterfly04

    Just thought she might take advice from someone more knowledgable in that area than I.

  • Read the comments at DontBeLeftBehind ‘s site for Jan 27 for more from aznbutterfly04.

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