I see that there are dissenters about the gifts of the Holy Spirit and confusion about tongues. Perhaps the best way to deal with this is just to suggest to these people that they pray that simple prayer, in faith, that Pastor Don prayed. But if you pray that prayer, pray expecting to receive from God. I find it very challenging to read some of these comments because I see that people are picking and choosing Bible verses out of context to prove their points. I will show these comments to Pastor Don, but the people who are espousing them seem pretty intrenched into doctrine that they have been taught. What puzzles me is that these same people can believe for salvation, but can’t believe that God can give the gift of tongues for today, or that signs and wonders are not for today. God puts His word above Himself. He does not lie. He does not change what He is saying from one era to the next. How could I ever trust a God that would change with the times? I am so glad that God is faithful. That God does what He says He will do. God has offered us gifts, I stand with my arms fully extended to receive whatever God chooses for me to have. I will not reject one thing He offers me. I want to be used by God and I want to use what God wants me to use to glorify Him. I am praying that those who refuse the gifts of God or state that they are not for this day and age have their eyes opened. We are running out of time, and need all the weapons to share God’s Kingdom with others that we can have.

Heather

Pastor Blaster, I am going to answer some of your points, then show your response to Pastor Don, who is out of town for a week or so. I am answering from my heart. Please read what I shared with Leona before you read this. Yes, Spiritual gifts can be misused, and I am sorry to say that there are many today who do misuse the gifts – there are many who are putting on a show of gifts but they are not from God. But just because there are some who do that does not mean that there are not those who are authentic. Why must the church be limited in God’s service? None of the spiritual gifts operate from a person, but from God through that person. And if the gifts are authentic, the person receiving the benefit will be pointed to God, not to the person operating in the particular gift. The best way to discern authentic from not is who gets the glory – if God is getting the glory, then it is authentic. If the one supposedly operating in the gift is getting more reverence and awe than God, than it is probably not of God.
 
When you say: “Context, context, context… Why did Paul write his letters to the Corinthians? Because they were so messed up in their theology, fellowship, use of spiritual gifts, and how they simply did church. The main culprits? Women who misused the church, men who were in adultery, and selfishness. The chapters on Spiritual gifts was never meant to be a guide book on them but an argument against the misuse of them.”
 
Perhaps you might want to consider that if Paul is giving a letter to the Corinthians about the MISUSE of spiritual gifts that there are SPIRITUAL GIFTS to be misused. The Word of God is the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow. Spiritual gifts that existed then will exist today or God and Jesus are liars. Jesus even said that we would do greater things then Him. Since Jesus died for OUR sins, and we live after He was alive, salvation is applicable to us, it was not just for those of Jesus’ time. We are Jesus Disciples. Is it not possible that if we can believe for salvation, that we can also believe for the gifts He told us we would have. He prayed for us, for those who would believe but not see Him, we are considered more blessed than Thomas who needed to see the marks to believe. Jesus has work for us to do, why would He not equip us to do that work?

You say: “In Acts when we read about tongues it is years apart. Sometimes upwards of 40 years! Each time it was to show the nonbeliever the power of God in the life of the believer, never as a means for personal pride. ”
 
Amen to that, and do we not also need to show the nonbelievers the power of God in the life of the believer TODAY? In fact, I think today with all of the confusion and occult things going on (which are very similar to the occult things going on in Paul’s day and age) that maybe, just maybe the same tongues and spiritual gifts are needed TODAY. You are right, it is not for PERSONAL PRIDE, in fact if it is being used for personal pride, then it is NOT of God. Same as in Paul’s day. And I would dare say that other gifts such as teaching and preaching, if they are for the pastor’s personal pride are also not edifying. What needs to be underscored, highlighted, and put in bold in our minds is that WE ARE GOD’S SERVANTS, we do what God wants us to do when God wants us to do it and how God wants us to do it. We are to FOLLOW God’s promptings, not our own understanding, not our own agenda, not what we thing “feels” right. We have to obey God. I also like you point that those gifts followed at times 40 years after Jesus’ death. What is 40 years or 2000 years or 6000 years to God? He keeps His word forever, and His power is NOT diminished over time. What He says is true is true for eternity.
 
YOU SAY: “While Paul did have a prayer language he used he emphatically tells his audience to “Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.” (1 Cor. 11:1) He was trying to get this church straightened out. They had ceased to be the body of Christ they were supposed to be. A unit working together. Instead they were all selfishly trying to out do one another. He knew they were “ignorant” as far as spiritual gifts were concerned. After explaining to them the necessity of unity and the spiritual gifts to be used as a church body, he bluntly asks them a series of questions that deserve a resoundingly “NO” for an answer: “Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? (1 Corinthians 12:29-30).“ Not everyone had a “spiritual gift” and not all had the same one! Why? Because they were to be the body of  Christ untied to do His work in the world! This is why he declares: “But eagerly desire the greater gifts.” What greater gifts? He goes on to relate: “And now I will show you the most excellent way (1 Corinthians 12:31).””
 
By the way, I think you meant united, which is an anagram of untied – truly I think that when we do not use the spiritual gifts we do become untied from the power of God to affect people. We must be obedient in all things and that includes spiritual gifts. But I agree in part – Yes Paul is exhorting the people to be ONE BODY IN CHRIST. But in this passage, Paul is talking about the spiritual gifts, and yes in this church they were out of order. Paul was trying to get the Body of Christ to function as one Body with Jesus as the Head. That does not negate the gifts and their use, but what it does do is make the person repent of using them for self advancement, for pride. But if the gifts are not being used under love, and for God’s glory they are sounding brass and clanging cymbols. But if the gifts are used PROPERLY they can move mountains. Please don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because some misuse gifts does not mean that the gifts are not valid. Those who misuse the gifts will have to answer to God, just as those who hamstring the church will also answer to God. Don’t forget that there are two types of tongues, one used in a corproate setting for prophesy (and only two or three are to speak them, and only if there is interpretation), but there is also personal tongues, and Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians 14:5  that  I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied: for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unles indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification. That does not sound like Paul is saying – don’t speak in tongues, but rather that he wished everyone spoke in tongues. And yet, at the same time in a corprorate setting speaking in tongues is different and used differently than when it is a private prayer language (read more of 1 Corinthians 14), but we should also pray for interpretation of tongues so that others can be edified. Both have their function. Private prayer language helps us to pray when we don’t know how to pray to build up ourselves, but what good is building up ourselves if we do not then pour out what God has given us to others so that God gets the glory? Both are needed. You can’t pour out what you haven’t been filled up with. An empty pitcher does not give refreshing water. You first have to pour water into the pitcher.
 
YOU SAY: “Then he related that they were to “Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy.”
 
Yes, we are to EAGERLY DESIRE SPIRITUAL GIFTS – that is plural there. Is the church today operating under EVERY ONE of the spiritual gifts? If not, why not?
 
YOU SAY PROPHESY: Which means speaking forth the word of God.” And then he relates: “For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God.” Why? Because the “tongue” is a known language. A speaking forth the word of God. The interpretation has always got to be the word of God, not some prophetic mumbo-jumbo nonsense.
 
Please, please pray the prayer that Pastor Don prayed. Why must a tongue be a known language – that is not to say that it won’t be a known language, but isn’t God able to have a language that sounds like mumbo-jumbo to us? When we speak in tongues it is to God, and God will understand. There is prophesy that is forthtelling which is sharing the Word of God, but there is also prophesy that if foretelling – where God shows us where a person will be in the future unless there is divine intervention. And at times when God shows us foretelling we are to tell the person other times not tell the person if it is just for our knowledge – but God will direct how each are being used. I want both kinds of prophesies.
 
When you say: This is why Paul continues by telling them: “I would like every one of you to speak in tongues (known languages), but I would rather have you prophesy (Speak the word of God.). He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets (literally what is being taught), so that the church may be edified. Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?” The church must be edified, strengthened, and encouraged in their growth in the Lord Jesus Christ. Not personal spiritual happiness. Personal pride. Nor a personal use of a gift that makes you feel close to God.”
 
Again, I addressed the above passage a bit ago, and I so disagree with you that tongues is a known language. What about Acts 19:6 when Paul laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. (had to be some sort of tongues that was not their normal language) or why would Paul not have said then they spoke the Word of God in their normal language?

When you say the following you seem to have changed translations of the Bible here: “This is why Paul finishes his admonishment to this wayward church by telling them: “Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church. For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified. I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue (1 Corinthians 14:8-19)!””
 
In Paul’s Day what was the trumpet – it was the shofar and it was to call the faithful to worship, to warn of danger, to call to battle, and there will be the last trumpet when God calls His people to Himself. It was not the Roman military trumpet that Paul was talking about – Paul was a Levite of the Levites. Sure seems to me, even in the above translation that Paul is saying that he is using BOTH. And so are we to use BOTH. But the Church seems to want to stay with their own understanding. I am sorry, but what needs to be going on in the Church is not about us, but about what God wants. We who want to control the movement of God will insist that everything is handled to OUR UNDERSTANDING. I sure wonder what would happen if we let God do what God can do and not limit it by our own understanding and doctrine. Shouldn’t He be given the upper hand? So often in churches God isn’t given freedom to move – church is so structured – three hymns, a fifteen minute to half hour sermon, a closing hymn, a call for salvations. What if God wanted to have church for three hours and not one hour? Most would not be able to fit that into their schedules. What if God wants 16 songs, or three hours of songs? No, we are putting too much of ourselves into our worship of God. We need to be looking to God, hearing from God, and doing God’s will. We need to obey not just the parts of the Bible that we are comfortable with, but the WHOLE BIBLE. We can no longer afford selective reading, selective worship.

WHEN YOU SAY:  “After sharply disciplining the wayward women and men in the church at Corinth (14:22-38) Paul finally finishes by telling them: “Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy (speak the word of God), and do not forbid speaking in tongues (known languages). But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way (1 Corinthians 14:39-40).””
 
I agree with the Bible passage, but not your things in parentheses – those are your interpretation of what that is saying and it weakens the scripture.

WHEN YOU SAY: “Every cult that has sprang up within the church has supported the misuse of speaking in tongues. It began with Montanism and has found itself in Latter Day Saint circles as well. In fact, I have been in Hindu and Buddhist meetings where the very same gibberish is spoken in exactly the same way and the use of “tongues” is encouraged. Is this godly? No. In fact, quite the opposite. This is what Paul was teaching against. The misuse of and the selfishness of thinking that gibberish was spiritual. It only makes the user feel good and does nothing for the local church. In fact, it usually separates folks. A spiritual language is to be personal. True speaking in tongues is when a known language is spoken, it is the Word of God, and there is someone there who knows that language and there is an unsaved person who needs to hear the message being brought.”
 
Again I agree that there is MISUSE, but that does not mean that all misuse. Just because something sounds like gibberish to you does not mean it is gibberish. I dare say that when my husband speaks to me about the workings of the computer it sounds like gibberish at times, but to him it makes perfect sense. Just because something sounds like jibberish to you does not mean that it sounds like that to God. You are making these passages say what is comfortable for you to comprehend, but we need to read them as Paul intended, and I really don’t think you are. Please pray to God to open up the eyes of your understanding. It really isn’t about us, but about God.
 
Heather