Curious what you think regarding the following:
This bit of dialogue regarding the Jews and Gentiles is pulled from my entry of a few days ago. Pastor Blaster answered me the following:
When is the “time of the Gentiles?” That is a good question. Some say it means when all the gentiles have been saved. While others say that it is when Jesus came and presented salvation to anyone who believes. God has never turned His back on Israel. It was through Israel that the message of salvation came and was fulfilled — namely Jesus.
When God looks on His people, those who are saved by grace through faith in Christ, does He see Jews, gentiles, slave, and free? According to Scripture He does not. He only sees His people called by His name. I, for one, am glad. I would not like slaughtering sheep anymore… :>)
By the way… if denominations are not important, why does God allow them? Why are we not all Bible believing Mormons then? Or why can’t we just believe what we want to about God? If you do not know why and how denominations came about go back and do some reading concerning a little thing called the Reformation. It does matter what you believe and adhere to and why. Theology does matter.
Comments (35)
That’s great to hear about your husband. Will keep him in prayer.
Larry
Very interesting post today! I believe the time of the Gentiles will end with the rapture of the church. At that time, I believe, the Jews who were left behind due to their refusal to accept Christ as the Messiah, will be the main focus of God.
I, too, was raised in an extremely conservative home where serving Christ was a duty I could never get perfect enough. It took several years of “wandering in the desert” before I learned enough of God’s love to balance my fear of Him. It is a fact, I declare under God; self-righteous christians have kept many people away from the Truth. I’ve never made an exact count, but I believe it to be true that the sin of the tongue/mouth is mentioned more than any other sin in the Bible.
As an adult, I couldn’t worship with either of my parents because of their critical spirits. My grandfather didn’t accept Christ until just before his death due, I believe, to my grandmother’s critical spirit. I could cite many like instances, but suffice to say, I KNOW the destruction a mouthy, self-righteous christian can cause.
Your quiet example is a model for all christians to follow. It must take patience and a lot of holding your tongue, but with God’s help it can be done. It’s all about loving Christ enough to allow Him to love others through us.
Good answer and that was the only way with your husband. What some don’t understand is when someone is indoctrinated, they feel as strongly as people who profess to be born again and thereby debate is fruitless. If we show the love of God, walk the walk and pray for them, it is more than any words we can ever say. Praise God for what he is doing in your husband. My verse to remember is “an offended brother is harder to win than a city”. On the “times of the gentiles”, my take on that is that there will be a time when the gentiles come back to their hebraic roots. Church and denominations have taken a lot away from the teaching of Torah (God’s teaching and instructions) I think the gentiles church will come home just like the jews. Just my opinion. love you
I gotta come aroiund and read this more carefully
I need to sleep now though
My study of Revelation brought me to the same conclusion that Inroute mentioned. I believe that the time of the gentiles will end with the rapture of the church (whether that would be pre or mid Trib is another debate altogether
and then the refining process of the Jews will come and that faithful remenant will arise~ God’s promise to restore Israel fulfilled.
Yes, I have been there a few times with that one too! LOL. I’m more of a writer than a speaker and there was one about writing a return letter with interest when someone writes you a nasty letter…than throw them both away! I said, “okay God, I got the picture!”
Have a blessed day!!
I’ll have to give it some more thought as to the “time of the gentiles,” but I think that time probably came when Jesus was here on earth and the Jews chose to not recognize him as the Promised One, the Messiah. As to why we have different denominations, I am not so sure there is any denomination that is 100% correct. The important thing is that there is only one way to heaven and that is thru faith in Jesus Christ. We must be born again to enter into heaven. I think you did what was right as regard to your husband. We have to be careful not to become stumbling blocks for others. Have a blessed day. ~ Debbie
Hi HEather! So your daughter being born on St. Pattys Day definitely makes her Irish!! LOL
Have a great day and God bless you!
Hi Heather,
Thanks so much for stopping by. Please remember our family in your prayers.
Love ya, Darlena
Wonderful post Heather. Amen to everything you said!
So awesome about your husband!!!!!!
I hate to see people focus on the word “denomination”. That simply means a group of people that believe in the same thing. As you said, and as I’ve stated before, it is imparative to know what you believe and why and stick to that. We have to know what we believe and why. But people seem more interested in winning some sort of contest to prove who is right and who is wrong rather than focusing on the basic truths and doctrines of the Bible. You’re absolutely right….we need to show what we believe by our life….not with arguments and condemnation.
Have a blessed day!
Michele
I think God “allows” denominations in the same way that he allows sin or us to have a choice in what we do, how we live our lives. It doesn’t mean he approves of them necessarily, but merely that He allows us to take and do with things as we will.
I personally think denominations act to restrict our experience of God…either through traditions, or teaching that is too conservative or too liberal. I don’t claim to a single denomination…I’m merely a follower of Jesus.
good response.
Hey Heather! I will come back later and respond to this particular post. But I think your Lent idea is absolutely beautiful! Thanks for the inspiration!
Thanks for visiting. Great post, the Bible says, “Other sheep have I.” That pretty much puts to rest that only one denomination will be saved. Salvation is an individual event, churches aren’t saved, people are.
Thank you
Great response, I think. I especially like what you have to say about denominations. I also wish more people had a witness like you do toward your husband. Just this week I was having a conversation with a woman who is nominally and non-practicing Jewish who had a horrific experience with someone who lambasted her for over an hour with the “you’re not going to Heaven if you haven’t accepted Jesus” speech. My heart went out to her.
If you don’t mind reading a book that is definitely “outside the box,” and very threatening to some, you might consider reading “A New Kind of Christian” by Brian McLaren. Some of what you are thinking and writing here seems to resonate with the perspectives of this book – one of my favorites.
Keep it up!
Very good answers! And see, by challenging you and others, I made everyone think a little bit more about what they believe. Guess what? That’s called THEOLOGY! What you believe does matter. It should be consistent from beginning to end and biblical. When we are not challenged to defend what we believe we often fall prey to whatever spiritual “fad” comes along. Too many pastors preach sermons that make the listener feel better about themselves instead of making them think about what they are to believe and then challenge them to live sacrificially for Christ. Christ did not come to make you feel better or to make your life easier. He came to seek and save the lost. He was and is more concerned about our relationship with God. As we accept Him and walk with Him, then our spiritual life is easier and stronger and then life itself begins to be easier because we are in God’s will. Outward circumstances do not matter as much. His yoke of mercy and grace is a whole lot lighter than following a set of strict rules that saved no one.
Jesus was very blunt and tough with His theology not only with the woman at the well, but with His disciples later and with everyone who challenged His doctrinal beliefs about God, the Trinity, His Messiahship, heaven, hell, and much more. This is why He called the Pharisees sons of Satan, blind guides, and told the woman at the well: “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth (John 4:21-24).” Her faulty belief was wrong and Jesus told her so. And in the Greek it is very blunt language.
One thing though – Mormons will tell you that they do believe that Jesus is the son of God and that He is a god.
You are absolutely correct about how you witnessed to your husband. The only time Christians are asked to “defend” their faith is when those who claim Christ try to teach something that is not biblical or when we are theologically challenged by non-believers. There can only be one truth.
By the way, this is for angel 14_5, if we go back to the Torah, we are not saved. Instead, we are depending on self works and not on the grace of God through Jesus. The Torah is finished, only faith in Christ and walking in Him daily matters.
Good answers though!
Just a quick note: “Denomination” often refers to the differing faith practices of corporate entities within Christianity, such as Catholic, Baptist, or Presbyterian, etc…; while “religion” often refers to the differing faith practices such as Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, New Age, or Jewish. Then you have “cults” which often refers to cultic practices of those who claim they are Christian, but adhere to false doctrinal teaching (theology). The “occult” often refers to non-Christian faith practices that often focus on the supernatural, Satan, demons, angel worship, witchcraft, the earth, stars or planets, or paganism.
I am trained and certified through my “denomination” to teach on all world religions, occult, and cults, and have studied and taught about them for over 20 years.
Divisions and denominations are Satan’s way of keeping us apart–from not sharing with each other–and from creating a unified front against the prince of lies’ evil ways.
Has your husband read to you the Decree on Ecumenism from Vatican II? There are also other Catholic documents that discuss the importance of keeping the lines of communication open among people of ALL faiths–including those who do not believe in ANY God.
I totally agree with your response!
Thank you for the comment. There is a total misunderstanding of Torah in our western culture. Torah does not mean law, Torah means God’s teaching and instruction. By no means am I insinuating that we should go back to the law, we need to go back to instructions. This is why the church and denominations are so out of order, it teaches doctrine, rather than commandment on the assumption that the law is finished, not so…the law is fulfilled. There are things that God commanded that Israel keep, forever. In that it is an understanding of what God is doing in the earth. This is what some of Hebrews 5 says:
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil
So what I am saying about the Torah is that the church at large does not understand the first prinicples of what God said because we toss aside the law as finished….there will always be law. Jesus brought us grace in order not to be condemed by the law and we have forgiveness of sin….but the law is still the law. But don’t get law mixed up with customs in what I am saying. Jesus came to fulfil the law and bring us redemption from its curse, Yes! But this is where we lose it. We have been more focused on doctrinal statements, statements of faith, vision and so on rather that on understanding the ordinances of God. That’s what i am talking about as a coming home to. Remember what “eklesia” means…called out ones. So maybe someone would like to post about what the “church” really is or is supposed to be. Thanks, love you
“if denominations are not important, why does God allow them?”
all things are permissible, but not beneficial. God also allowed evil and sin.
“Why are we not all Bible believing Mormons then?”
Mormonism is more of a cult than it is Christianity, we know because it deviate from God breathed scripture from something (2nd testimony of Christ) the mormon creator wrote up himself proclaiming to be a prophet. how do we know who are the false prophets and who are real? Henry Nouwen made a good comment “a man of prayer can see the face of the Messiah in people.” this is the importance of having a solid theological framework, being able to recognize fundamental truth from falsehood. with that we know the history of mormonism and it’s doctrines often violate the scriptures that it still claims to follow – eg. polygamy, righteousness through work not faith, etc…
“Or why can’t we just believe what we want to about God?”
because simply God created man, not man created God. this isn’t about what Christianity means to me, it’s about what Christianity means. It’s not about “us” and what we want, it’s all about God and “who” He is.
“If you do not know why and how denominations came about go back and do some reading concerning a little thing called the Reformation.”
denomination was formed way before the reformation, actually in the early churches specifically the separation of the Holy Roman Empire from the Byzantine Empire, the break up of the papalcy of the Catholics and the Orthodox Christian. it is the result of a “rival” competition for “power” over the laity as well as control of the church, and evidently into the state. it was created purely out of selfish evil intent of man. it’s quite disgusting actually, leading to a lot of murders and just pure hatred.
denomination by itself is not wrong, but we know the bible does not support it. Christ and Apostle Paul often emphasize clearly the “one” body of Christ. denomination exist today because man has problem with pride, control, power, and corruption in the papalcy of modern church, man cannot deal with “conflict resolution” within the church… instead of working it out through the love of Christ, it’s far simpler to split up.
the truth simply is today’s church falls way short of the end time church that was prophecized, it is more of a democracy than it is a theocracy. the way we do worship, just the whole church thing… is not reflected biblically. reformation was not complete, we need another overhaul to re-examine the heart of worship and know in depth what is this endtime bride of Christ and what does Christ Himself taught about the church and how we’re spose to worship.
Heather, I like your response here. This portion really hit home to me: “…I can also see that by sticking to a theological point of view, clamping on and not letting go, that instead of really helping another person understand, you just build walls not bridges. It might be self-gratifying to successfully win a theological argument to show how right you are, but maybe the expense might be the loss of the chance to have a meaningful dialogue with a person to help them move a step closer to the truth from where they are. If you cause a person to back off because of an inflexible point of view it really isn’t serving God’s kingdom. Even Jesus would begin dialogues where a person was and through a good and friendly dialogue bring them to where He wanted them to be. Example the Woman at the Well.” Thanks, I needed that. Also about your husband, good going. My mom and dad were of two different belief systems, dad same as your husband (though not practicing). Now that he is in his 80s he is reading the bible and entering into dialogue that shows he is interested! Stay the course!
Tim
Heather, you are such a gift! I believe denominations were born by mans desire to have things a certain way,their interpretation. All I can say,is in heaven we;re going to be one body one family worshipping the One True God. I’ve been in Bible Study Fellowship with 20 churches represented,and ALL we talked about was the word of God-no laws,no denominational viewpoints,just the truth! Heaven is going to be full of all churches, but we’re going to be ONE body!
Hey Heather -
I got the comment you left on my xanga site a few days back, but I haven’t been able to respond because I’m a freshman at Fresno State and have been dealing with midterms and papers (joy). The fun of education.
Anyways on a more serious note, I just wanted to thank you for the encouragement that you left on my site, it meant a lot to me. Things have been rally hard at home for the past few months now…there’s no way to prepare for such things either – not really. How is one supposed to deal with their brother turning away from God and getting into drugs, sex and alcohol? I don’t know…they never teach you about this in school.
I think the hardest part hasn’t been so much his messing up as having to see the way it kills my parents to see him doing these things; I hate the pain I see in their faces and the hurt I see in their tears. How are you supposed to watch your parents cry? What do you do? You’re always taught that they’re the strong ones – you’re raised believing that, and then for there to be a huge role reversal like this is incredibly difficult to adapt to. *sigh* I don’t know I just have to trust Christ to give me the strength and discernment that I need to get through all of this. I hope that some day it will all turn around…I just don’t know how long it’ll take.
And, yes I do have friends I can turn to, people I know that will be there for me, people who will be there to pray over and for me and for that I am incredibly grateful. I’m just one of those people who gets all of their emotions out through their writing (in most cases writing a prayer to God)…I usually write what I’m feeling before I can talk to anyone – it helps me figure out what exactly is going on so that I can explain it to others.
I don’t know it seems like now God is the only sure thing; the only thing that truly makes sense in my now chaotic topsy-turvy life. I know it’ll all start looking up soon…even if it doesn’t I know that God does not allow us to go through hard times and struggles for no reason, so I trust that he will use this for his Glory, and that is enough for me. I know that Christ is my strength from day to day and it feels me with such joy to know that he continually chooses me despite my short-comings and misdeeds – despite the way that I, a faithless siner continue to crawl off the alter of sacrafice to pursue my own ends and only end up surrounded by the flames. God is truly amazing and knowing that helps me to keep going despite the hurt that I feel.
Well I really better be going I have three research papers due next week, and although I’ve done all the research I haven’t started writing them yet (oops). Thank you again for all of your encouragement it really warmed my heart. You and yours shall be in my prayers.
Thank you and God bless
Love in Christ
Camion
Whoa! Lot of responses on this post; I know that I definitely enjoyed reading it. Thank you for the post on my site.
JR
Thank you so much for your insightful post on my Ware book review. I loved your analogy about the 2D people trying in vain to fathom a 3D world. Theology is alot like back, and the only grounds we have of learning anything about who God is in Himself is because He has chosen to reveal Himself to us in Scripture. Does Scripture tell us everything about God? I don’t think so, but it certainly tells us what we need to know to worship Him as God and reveals to us the nature of saving faith in Jesus Christ His Son. I don’t think we can ever figure out all the details of how human responsibility and divine sovereignty coexist this side of eternity. But I think Dr. Ware’s book at least gave me some good Biblical thoughts for doing so. He draws attention to Scripture and then trys to make systematic sense of it. I think believers are both justified and responsible to be stewards as such.
In the end, our theology should not be an end in itself, but should motivate and enliven our worship and joyful service to the Lord as it encourages us in our salvation in Christ.
God bless, Heather.
Adam
Thanks again, Heather. But I’m not sure I understand exactly what you mean in your last comment. Would you mind clarifying for my readers and me?
I agree with you wholeheartedly. There needed to be more on the resurrection definately. I felt it appropriate to remind folks what he went through for us, because as humans, we tend to keep such a “victim” mentality when we haven’t suffered near what Christ did for us. Sometimes it helps people to look at things differently..and cause for more recognition of what God has done in their life and what He is able to do for us if we just believe in His Son and what He did for us.
God bless you and have a great day!!
I’m sooo grateful for your blog! Your consistancy in seeking out the truth is very challenging and encouraging. I also admire your boldness in saying what you belive and are confused about!I have such a desire to know and understand God’s word more clearly. If I could just study my bible all day I would do it!! His word is sooo amazing adn such a comfort when you don’t know what to do adn when you know what to do! He is sooo WONDERFUL!! I won’t be commenting much this next week. I will be on a mission trip to South Padre Island. (prayer requests are on my blog!) Hope you have a wonderful week!
I will sometimes read Catholic theology, attend mass, or visit a Catholic bookstore when my walk as a Christian non-Catholic begins to feel a bit thin.
It would be hard to completely leave the enthusiasm, warmth, and great music of a really good evangelical church, though.
PastorBlastor said; “You are absolutely correct about how you witnessed to your husband. The only time Christians are asked to “defend” their faith is when those who claim Christ try to teach something that is not biblical or when we are theologically challenged by non-believers. There can only be one truth.”
This, on your part, was AWESOME! You/we may be the only bible many will read!
Keep seeking His truth, Heather. He has promised He will lead you into His truth. May we seek HIm above all else. With much love and many prayers, Paula
i like your answer.. :0) i hope you have a blessed weekend!! hugs and prayers
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