Be very careful when trying to justify the weeks in Revelation especially with Daniel and other Scripture. Too many forget that Revelation is written to seven churches of a specific time, not to us. If you forget this main teaching and biblical reality, you can get far a field fast.Be very careful when trying to justify the weeks in Revelation especially with Daniel and other Scripture. Too many forget that Revelation is written to seven churches of a specific time, not to us. If you forget this main teaching and biblical reality, you can get far a field fast.

In fact, much of the teaching that is centered around Premillennial Dispensationalism is fairly new. About 1840 on and was first presented by cultic groups such as Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Latter Day Saints. It was condemned at the time as being heretical. No Christian church taught it, until now. And this is mainly due to such cultic groups as TBN and their influence.

Each rider in Revelation 6 is described and we are told exactly who they are and what they represent. There is no guess work involved or mysterious messages that we need to glean from Daniel or others. Point in fact , it may have more to do with the fall of Jerusalem and Jesus’ words from Matthew 24 which directly parallel the history of this event. If you read the histories of the time, it squarely places each event within its context.

Too much is made or shoved into pet theologies instead of reading God’s Word the way it is presented. Revelation is a book of hope, not fear. It gave great comfort to those who originally received it. If you have Christ, you do not need to worry about what any man or demon can do to you. They are powerless.

When those who desire to prove that the reformation of Israel as a nation state is proof for their prophetic license they do not tell you that the nation as it exists now would be totally condemned by God and goes against what Scripture in fact says: “So the LORD gave Israel ALL the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they POSSESSED it and LIVED in it. And the LORD gave them rest on every side, according to ALL that He had sworn to their fathers, and no one of all their enemies stood before them; the LORD gave all their enemies into their hand. Not ONE of the good promises which the LORD had made to the house of Israel failed; ALL came to pass (Joshua 21:43–45).” Israel now is extremely paganistic. Few are devout Jews and many disagree with each other as how Judaism should be practiced. The Old Covenant is dead and finished.

And when we read this with further evidence found in Scripture such as out of Galatians, Hebrews, and Romans that Christians, through Jesus Christ, are now the complete fulfillment of God’s promises, we can leave behind teaching that says the temple needs to be physically rebuilt. Hebrews makes it very plain that the temple already exists in heaven. Paul said it was not built by human hands. Also, the concept of the Red Heifer is false. There is no perfect Red Heifer in existence for the sacrifices to be started up again and it would not be needed if there were. The odd idea of this has been completely explained by others. Any sacrifice or temple that would be made or rebuilt would be a complete abomination to God and paganism. Jesus is our only and complete sacrifice. No animal’s blood matters one whit.

Finally if you want to be a literalist and take the 70 weeks into account, it has come and gone. Now many who teach this have to really twist what they meant by this and how it all fits into their timeline. Kay Arthur and others have been taken to task over their odd teaching concerning the end times. I have dozens of books written by Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, and others predicting when Jesus would return. Guess what? They were all wrong! LaHaye is known for just reprinting his books and putting new dates to the old predictions he has lamely made. My Daddy said, “Follow the money.” And he is right when it concerns many of this end times prognosticators.

If you think this is bad, wait until you read what they have to say about the 666 (which by the way in many of the earliest manuscripts of Revelation is not 666 at all) or the mark of the beast. It becomes hilarious because so many are sucked into notions that have no relevance to Scripture or actual history.

When you wrote, “No matter where the events are placed by various theologies, the important thing to remember is that in the end, Jesus wins/satan loses, and we who are saved and have a relationship with Jesus will be where Jesus is, for He has gone and prepared a place for us.” That is the best statement possible.

Either Jesus is the answer or He is not. If He is, then we need nothing else nor do we need to worry about what happens next. Revelation was written to teach the early church this fact. Even so Lord Jesus come! — Just my thoughts… :>)

By the way, I am in the middle of a verse by verse teaching of Revelation with my church. I do thihs about every two years in order to make sure folks know what is being taught, why, and what the Bible really says about it.

I agree with much of what you say, but you forget the Scripture, such as Deuteronomy 28:9, where God told Israel, “If you keep my…” The promise was and has been always contingent upon Israel staying true. They did not and have not. God reminded them: “However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you… (Deuteronomy 28:15).” He then went on to list all the curses! In fact, read ALL of Deuteronomy 28 and it is an eye opener! Later God reiterated this by telling them, “If you follow my decrees and are careful to obey my commands (Leviticus 26:3).” Then He goes on to tell them: “But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, then I will do this to you… (Leviticus 26:14-16).” God goes on to list everything that will fall on Israel if they did not continually follow Him. This was true in every instance of His promise throughout the Bible. It baffles me when people forget this plain and simple truth. Even when God told Israel He would love them forever, it was contingent upon them keeping ALL the law and following Him without ever turning aside. Why would God do that? Because He knew it was impossible to do!

Hebrews explains this very well as does Paul in Romans and Galatians. When God told Abraham, “I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever (Exodus 32:13).” It was Abraham’s promise, who was not under any law and followed God by simple faith, however, the promise was completely fulfilled, not because of Israel, but because of Jesus Christ.

In fact we find God lamenting to Moses, “Oh, that their hearts would be inclined to fear me and keep all my commands always, so that it might go well with them and their children forever (Deuteronomy 5:29)!” But they would not and did not and God knew they would not and could not. That is why we needed Jesus to come and rescue us!

The “secret things” of God were only Israel’s as long as they followed God (Deuteronomy 29:29).

The promises of God to bring Israel back to the land He promised them was completely fulfilled long before Israel was reinstated by a United Nations charter!

Never forget what Scripture says: “So the LORD gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it. And the LORD gave them rest on every side, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers, and no one of all their enemies stood before them; the LORD gave all their enemies into their hand. Not one of the good promises which the LORD had made to the house of Israel failed; all came to pass (Joshua 21:43–45).” All means ALL, not part or will be fulfilled sometime later, it meant ALL right then and there.

Many Dispensationalists will argue that “all Israel” must be saved before Jesus returns (Romans 11:26), and that all Israel was not saved in the first century. In the Romans context, however, “all Israel” is the believing elect remnant (Romans 11:5). The “remnant” has been saved through Jesus Christ already. Peter wholeheartedly believed this and addresses the crowd at Pentecost as the “men of Israel” (Acts 2:22). He expands his message to include “all the house of Israel” (Acts 2:36). The “brethren”—Jewish brethren—want to know what they, as Jews, must do to be saved. Peter tells them, “For the promise is for you and your children. . .” (Acts 2:39). There is nothing in this chapter that indicates that the Abrahamic promises are not being fulfilled right then and there or only partially. We find that the Apostle Peter preached to his countrymen, the Jews, by telling them that “Jesus the Christ” (Messiah) was “appointed for you” (Acts 3:20). The “restoration of all things” (Acts 3:21) is the pre-ordained redemptive work of Jesus to fulfill what all the prophets have written. Peter tells them that the prophets “announced these days” (Acts 3:24). “It is you who are the sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed’” (Acts 3:25). There is no mention of a postponement of the promises. Hebrews says, “Abraham received what was promised (Hebrews 6:15).” Meaning that it was completely fulfilled in Christ.

God did not give up on Israel. On the contrary He has already saved it through Jesus Christ. Anyone, including Jews, who come to Christ experience the fulfillment of all of God’s promises. The end times does not fulfill this, nor does the return of Jesus. It has already taken place! This is why the writer of Hebrews patiently explains, “And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? … they (Israel) were not able to enter, because of their unbelief. Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it (Hebrews 3:18-19 & 4:1).” And that “Now we who have believed enter that rest (Hebrews 4:3)!” This is why what God told Jeremiah is quoted by the writer of Hebrews: “The time is coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the LORD “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.” (Jeremiah 31:31-34).”

Hebrews goes on to tell us: “For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant (Hebrews 9:15).” When we place too much emphasis on Israel’s promise fulfillment in Revelation, we do a disservice to Jesus and the Word. We also misunderstand what Revelation is all about. Just as the Book of Daniel was first and foremost written for the people of that time, Revelation was written for the early church. Can we receive a blessing from reading it? Yes! But if we place undo and unwarranted burdens on it, we misinterpret it for future generations and place on it something that it was never intended. Again, much of what is taught concerning Premillennial Dispensationalism is based more on sensationalism and cultic twisting of Scripture than on what the Word contains, history, or facts.

All Christians (believing Jews and gentiles) are now God’s people. All of God’s promises have been fulfilled in Christ completely. Jesus said it was “finished” in Him. This is why Paul emphatically states, “You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise (Galatians 3:26-29).” We are the remnant! After all Paul relates that “God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable (Romans 11:29).” And that we are the grafted in branch. He wrote that this was true because all of “Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved (Romans 11:25-26)!” That took place because of Jesus. As Peter would declare, “But you [believers] are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10).”

If you say you want to take Revelations literally, as many Dispensationalists do, then what do you do with the two witnesses who breath fire from their mouths and cause harm to people, who are killed, and then resurrected? To say they are actual people, Jews, who are given special powers is ludicrous in the extreme. And if you begin to simply add up all the people who are killed by all the bowls of wrath, trumpets, opened seals, meteors and such, the numbers equate to more than all the people living! You will also have a problem interpreting what heaven or the New Jerusalem is going to be like, because literally it will be like a giant cube! And let’s not even talk about what the angels look like and why or even Jesus Himself as depicted throughout Revelations. He changes a lot. What do you do with those who say that believers can actually lose their salvation, which is completely contrary to Scripture, because they put a number on their head or hands. Why would a believer even do such a thing? Is it for us or for those who do not believe? What if the number is not 666 but in reality 777 or 661? Which by the way is what older manuscripts say it is.

Dispensationalist will also say that the seven-year tribulation period is clearly taught in Scripture. When asked where, they take you to Daniel 9:24–27. In order to get a seven-year tribulation period, the Dispensationalist must first prove that there is a gap of nearly 2000 years between the 69th and 70th weeks! None is found anywhere in Scripture. NONE! He must also demonstrate from these verses that the antichrist will make a covenant with the Jews during a post-rapture tribulation. Then there must be proof of a second rebuilt temple that skips over the first rebuilt temple that stood in Jesus’ day, Nehemiah’s temple, and another temple rebuilt after that and before Herod’s temple. Read Daniel 9:24–27 without the necessary dispensational preconceptions, and see if you find these required dispensational distinctives in these verses. You will find none. Dispensationalists will argue that the “he” of 9:27 is the antichrist. Does the text say “he” is the antichrist? It does not. One would expect the antichrist of Revelation to make a covenant with the Jews during the so-called seven-year tribulation period since Revelation is an expansion of Daniel’s 70th week. There is no mention of the antichrist making a covenant with anyone, either in Daniel 9:27 or in Revelation. In fact, there is not a single biblical example of antichrist making a covenant with anyone.

Just as God explained Daniel completely without any mysterious interpretive notions, He does so with Revelations as well. The problem is often with people who want to impart too much into what God has already given us and make it harder to understand: “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” Read the Word in the context of the whole Word and not someone’s notion of what they think should happen. We may not know what will occur, and you know what? It is okay! God wins, like you said.

Who will be the antichrist, when will Jesus return, will there be stamps placed on our head and hands make no difference to me. Jesus will return. Pre-trib, post-trib, or mid-trib – it really does not matter. I honestly believe in the words of Jesus when He related, “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father… So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him (Matthew 24:36, 44).” How are we “ready?” By playing guessing games with Revelations, doing charts and graphs? No. Simply by being ready by placing our faith and trust in Jesus as our Savior and Lord and being about our Master’s business when He does finally return.

By the way, as you can see… I enjoy a good theological discussion as long as it does not get too silly. :>)