April 30, 2005

  • Finally, a chance to sit down and share Bible study notes from Friday. Pastor Don taught, yeah!!!!, on spiritual giftings and spiritual maturity.


    Christians almost always feel they are further along in their spiritual path than they are, when our flesh is not being tested. When testing of the flesh occurs, we find out exactly where we are spiritually.


    Usually our response to a problem in the body is that someone else has a problem. It isn’t our problem, it is the other person’s immaturity. We tend to want to blame others . Spiritual babies fixate at a certain spiritual age and when a problem occurs, they move from church to church, but stay at the same spiritual age.


    There is a difference between having a revelation of Christ and having Christ recreated in you.


    Immature Christians are always chasing another revelation, another manifestation of the power of God, the external rather than an inward recreation of themselves.


    Jesus had only one calculated tantrum on one day (the chasing of the moneychangers out of the temple), but most of our tantrums are spontaneous combust ions.


    We are not always telling ourselves the truth, the right estimation of a situation until Christ is recreated in us.


    Col. 1:13 – “He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love.”


    Col. 1:8 “…who also declared to us your love in the Spirit.”


    ALL wisdom and spiritual understanding are fulfilled with knowledge of God’s will. We must be constantly aware of the prime object, to take everything into the reality of 2 Cor. 10:4 “For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds…”


    When God wants to relay a message to us, we must be more concerned with the information that the person is relaying, not the method of conveyance. Satan will try to get the message lost by causing us to focus on the messenger, not the message. A newborn believer may have a message from God for the mature Christian, but if the mature Christian discounts the newborn believer’s words, he will not get the message.


    Pastor Don said that at one point when he was preaching he was very concerned if the congregation would not say hearty Amens at the point where Pastor Don felt that the Amens were called for. His wife pointed out to him that sometimes people may not be responding outloud because they are pondering what they are hearing, they are absorbing something new, and that sometimes the amens will come later, not in the presence of Pastor Don. So he had to let go of the need to get approval and a response from the people.


    But he also pointed out that there is a power released when we speak an agreement with an “Amen,” in the airwaves. The presence of your vocalization is your power to establish the Kingdom here on earth. Commands of the mouth and faith in the heart releases power to put satan underfoot.


    Our goal is to be filled completely with the Holy Spirit and acting in the Knowledge of His Will. But some are only functioning at 2%, some at 80% of this. A lot of times we are trying to exercise OUR wills, God is ever changing. His will in unchanging but is also inflexible and variable, it has a clarity and a rightness. (Heather note: This seems a bit puzzling to me in the flesh, but then I am forever trying to put God into a box of my own understanding and God is way beyond what I can conceive, so it is not as contradictory as my flesh seems to feel this statement is.)


    When we have a problem, we appeal to God to change his dictates to make it more comfortable for us, to release us from the problem. But really we do not have ALL wisdom and spiritual understanding to see what God sees.


    Spiritual understanding is the will of God to provide you with what you need to do his will. He will provide funds to do his will concerning your life.


    What we don’t believe is that if it isn’t a direct service to God, that God will pay the bill. Within reason, God wants us happy, and that leaves room for God’s provision for some of our wants, and that does not have to always relate to God’s primary purpose for our life.


    Because we are a temple of the Holy spirit, and we set a goal that results in a positive end, God will fund your desire. For example an evangelist in India who wants to visit an unsaved relative in the country. It is all in God’s will, and we don’t have knowledge and faith for it. But that does not allow us to spend resources foolishly.


    God will give us luxurious things, but his main focus is for us to deal with our own flesh issues. And if the luxurious things will take away from dealing with our flesh issues, God may choose not to provide them.


    God has delivered us from demons of darkness and given us ALL blessings, but WITH knowledge of HIS WILL.


    We need to do a good thing, and by spiritual understanding we will step out in faith to do God’s will. God wants to fill us with his Wisdom.


    Wisdom is to take information and understand what to do with the knowledge.


    Knowledge is the information that we have.


    Spiritual understanding is the information to know what to do with knowledge in the natural and the supernatural realm. The application of wisdom.


    Not all spiritual people who have much knowledge of the Bible act in wisdom and spiritual understanding.


    One person in the Old Testament who showed Spiritual understanding was Jehosephat. He had many problems and numerous enemies that were surrounding him. He was outnumbered. But he knew God was greater than his enemy, so he took the position of getting the Israelites to pray and Jehosephat prays for wisdom about the information (the surrounding of the enemy) that he has. God gives him wisdom, “take your position, the battle is not yours, it is the Lord’s.”


    He had the spiritual understanding, and against all fleshly circumstances, he stayed in the position of prayer and faith in God. The war in the physical became the spiritual. What happened is that his enemies were confused and killed each other and himself. Jehosephat and his army did not raise one sword in the Lord’s battle.


    Another example was King Saul, who chased David. David woke up one night and found that Saul was sleeping in the same cave, and his men had the KNOWLEDGE, that it would be very easy for David to kill King Saul. But David had the WISDOM to seek God, and God gave him the spiritual wisdom of knowledge, and he obeyed God and did not touch God’s anointed, Saul. David takes some of Saul’s things and clips his robe. He learned from this to depend on God in these difficult situations. Sometimes vanquishing the enemy is not always in the cause of God, who can vanquish every enemy. From that time on David was never afraid of Saul and could never claim credit for vanquishing Saul, saving him from the sin of pride in this. So he knew that it was God who gave him the throne.


    Col 1:10-12 …”that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light.”


    Longsuffering with joy and patience.  Pastor Don asked us, “Would you rather be waiting with longsuffering or waiting with longsuffering with patience and joy. When you realize that you are not meant to suffer forever, you will learn the lesson you need to learn and release the suffering. So better to face the trials with patience and joy, work through them, learn what you need to learn and move on, giving thanks to God.


    If you are suffering ask for spiritual understanding. Wait for the full manifestation of the reward. Waiting is a whole lot easier than longsuffering. So let us wait keep on going through until you get the lesson of your going through, and once you get your going through, your going through will stop.


    God will permit satan to keep bugging you until you say, this is the last time. An example Pastor Don gave was if you have a hard time saying no when a friend asks you out to a place, and you don’t want to go, don’t like going, don’t get edified by it, but can’t say, “no.” Rest assured the person will keep calling you and inviting you out until you finally say, “no” you get what you are going through, and then the calls will stop.


    God is offended by the spirit of offence that is seen among Christians. People are quick to judge, condemn, and take offence when no offence should be taken.


    There are three levels of Christians.


    BABY: wants toys and gifts (signs and wonders), for himself. He wants to see a move of the power of God for himself, wants to fall down under the spirit, have tongues, have all the good things of God. When he attends a church service he is offended if the message doesn’t apply to him, or he wants more time to soak for him, wants prophesy spoken over him, it is a ME, ME, ME thing.


    TEENAGERS: they want toys and gifts, but for show and tell, but to show their peers that they have acquired them. It is for their self elevation and impressing others. They are strongly affected by peer influence.


    MATURE: have toys and gifts to give away.


    Col 1:12-13 (above) we have the inheritance of the saints (toys and gifts) IN THE LIGHT, and it is for the equipping of the saints.


    Convey (transferred) take from one place and put to another. convey to us the kingdom of the Son of His love.


    A mature Christian will say, “Look at what I can do, you can do it too.”


    Eph 4:11-17 “And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind.”


    This passage gives us a description of each part of the Body of Christ (apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, and teacher)-five fold ministry


    Every Church which is open to the gifts of the Holy Spirit has at some level all of the five fold ministry. We do not always recognize this for we tend not to see the giftings of those in our church, and often we set our bar so high, comparing people with famous evangelists, prophets, etc.


    Pastor Don pointed out that in the Baptist church he was raised many of the women would put their arm around him and speak prophesy. He hated it when they told him that they saw him as a pastor, that he had the gift of preaching, etc. At that time Pastor Don wanted anything BUT that, but these women were prophesying over him. They were not Kenneth Hagins, or any of the other great prophets, but they were prophesying.


    We are not to seek these gifts, and if they are there for us to use the focus MUST be the edifying of the Body of Christ, not personal glory, or pride, or showing off.


    Everything we do should make us feel better and bring others to salvation.


    Ephesians 4:17-18 “This I say threfore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart…”


    Our primary purpose is to bring the Light of God’s Kingdom to the darkness of this world.


    Not all speak in tongues, not all agree with tongues, but tongues is a private prayer language that you can use to build up your spiritual batteries so that you are ready with the right words, thoughts, and actions. If you are not charged up through tongues, prayer, meditation on the Word, you may miss situations where you can act powerfully.


    A smile in the flesh is just a smile, but a smile that is charged and filled with the Holy Spirit can do wonders in another person’s life.


    If we are spiritually charged, however we achieve that, we then have power to battle whatever satan throws at us. If we are spiritually charged up, we will not so easily fall into the temptation of sin, and have the power to fight satan.


     


    I have to tell you, the above Bible study was very convicting to me. I have seen myself when I have rushed out of the house without any spiritual charge, and I can tell you it isn’t always pretty.


    I wish I could tell you that I am spiritually mature, but I can see that in areas of my life I sometimes act like a baby, a teenager, and sometimes spiritually mature. But there is MUCH room for growth in me.


    I also find that there are times when I forget the prime directive that we are to build the body of Christ, that we are to help edify each other. There are times when I am judgmental, or don’t reach out when I should reach out. I keep praying for that spiritual understanding. I want to apply the knowledge I am learning and to serve God the best I can, but boy do I still have a lot of growing up to do.


    Please always remember that if there are errors in how this is presented it is my error in taking notes. I have to be honest, sometimes Pastor Don talks fast and I have to interpret my scribbles (she says smiling).


    I hope you have a blessed Sunday.


    Heather

Comments (36)

  • Very good POST! Ty so much for your prayers and thoughts…I sure appreciate them….GOD BLESS YOU…and your family……

    HUGS

  • RYC: Yep. Belly buttons. Very strange indeedly!

    Have a wonderful weekend and a more blessed week!

  • WOW!! There is a lot of good stuff in there to think about. The puzzle part is kind of puzzling to me to, but I think it means when you want to do something and God wants you to do something different, there is a “rightness” to the will of God–oh I am messing this up good. I mean when you know it is God’s will, you will feel “right” inside.

    I think most times, we are all acting like a baby, teenager, and sometimes mature–it is sort of like a 17 yr old. Sometimes, they act mature and sometimes like a baby, or a teenager. It is a growing process.

    Thanx, Heather!!! That is GOOD!!!

    love u!!!!

  • you MUST be a teacher! so much detail. so much educating and instructing. good words. Good Book!

    thanks for stopping by.

    yeah.spring cleaning. and those people are still subbed to me. seems like they forget about it or something. once in a while i might go through the list and check in on them….. dunno. we have dial up and it takes a lot of time to hit 108.

    had ‘an interesting’ sunday.

    thanks for praying for us.

  • I liked that part: baby, teenager, mature… I think I may be a mature teenager… although there are times when God shows me that I am still a baby when I’m being shown something for the first time…

    Hey, I just wanted to let you know I’m doing a Never-Ending story day on Tuesday before we jump into Ecclesiastes… I’m hoping you’ll come and play…

  • I hope you’ve had a blessed Sunday!  Thanks for always sharing your notes and thoughts.  <><

  • This part sounds like me, except is was men at Fuller Seminary, pastors at an old church who thought I would become a pastor at their church, and a bunch of other people…. LOL….. I still feel way….. LOL

    QUOTE:

    “Pastor Don pointed out that in the Baptist church he was raised many of the women would put their arm around him and speak prophesy. He hated it when they told him that they saw him as a pastor, that he had the gift of preaching, etc. At that time Pastor Don wanted anything BUT that, but these women were prophesying over him. They were not Kenneth Hagins, or any of the other great prophets, but they were prophesying.”

  •  
    Hey,
     
    Yah, I am in sort of a weird place right now. Being stuck in the transition from kid to adult, graduation to college phase isn’t helping… I feel like I don’t know where I’m supposed to be, what I’m supposed to be doing. Like I’m wandering around aimlessly with no purpose. I know it couldn’t be farther from the truth, because I do have a purpose, I have something to do here… It just stinks to not know WHAT!

  • yes.the heart of a teacher.

    you are awesome.

    i read your post 4-28. we share the same background in some areas. the rules always changed. they were always critical. nothing was ever enough.nothing could be predicted. there was no standard other than ‘how do they feel rigt now’.

    never beaten. not physically. not by them.

    and i wonder where i get my impression of God. it doesn’t fit my background. my sister has blown christianity off ,  and she was my introduction to it!

    how is your husband………………

  • This is a wonderful teaching.  I’ve read it through a couple of times and have been pondering the different applications to my own life.  I have certainly been guilty of thinking myself more mature than I am, and even worse in some ways has been that I’ve also been guilty of thinking the people around me to be more mature than they are. 

    The biggest shock of my life was when I found myself in the most painful circumstances of my life and all my “Christian” friends faded back.  I have to admit that I’ve become very much less trusting of them in general and far less willing to listen to their “message” (I’m not in any way rejecting Jesus or the gospel, I’m saying that I got an up close and personal look at the fact that a lot of  the people who say they believe it, don’t follow through by putting themselves to work as servants of each other, building up the body.)  When I was hurting and scared, my Christian friends were like the friends of Job, quick to suggest that I was reaping a reward for some sin in my life.  Or if I confessed that I was two months behind on the electric bills, they were quick to tell me that they’d be happy to pray for me to be blessed by God. 

    The lesson I learned was that I trust God.  And if people step up to the plate – ever – that’s unusual and they should be well thanked for it.  But don’t look to Christians for support because what I found was judgment, condemnation, and rejection. 

  • Your entry was the perfect beginning for my Monday. Its giving me so much to think about and so much to share. I liked the comparison to Baby, Teenager and Mature Christian….its kind of eye opening when I have to face the reality that sometimes I am little of each but never enough of the one I most need to be. Writing out my notes and thoughts on studies always helps me retain the information better but I really appreciate your having done it here and sharing it with us, especially since I missed church yesterday and am waiting on someone to bring me the CD.

  • I am saving this, because it is such an eye-opener. I almost quit Xanga because I felt that the Holy Spirit was convicting me about spending too much time on here. But I decided to pray about it and I realized that the conviction I felt was over letting my time here come before too many important things.

    I had forgotten my primary purpose, which was to minister to others. That is my gift and I know it well; I nurture, encourage and teach. I truly believe that God has allowed me to go through so many circumstances that others would deem unsavory so I would have an understanding and empathy for many peoples.

    I regulate my time here now and I know I am doing better. Thank you for this wonderful, informative post.

  • I think that jumping from church to church is what prevents people from growing spiritually.  If we jump from church to church, there is no one who really knows us long enough to speak truth into our lives.

  • Good post!  : )

  • Heather…thank you for taking the time to write out your studies. They are so encouraging and full of valuable info.

    Have a great day! ~Kim

  • Hi Heather….I am going to have to have Mark put it on an MP 3 player…which we don’t have but his birthday is tomorrow….so I have been thinking about getting him something along those lines…I am wondering what is on these CD’s that God wants me to know…! So it’s something for me to look forward to…

    much love!……………

  • wow, that’s alot of information…i thought your description on three levels of Christians was interesting. i think im still a teenager…and sometimes, it feels like ill never get past it. sigh. but i wonder if the mature Christian finds themselves relapsing into the teenager category once in a while…

  • What is dangerous is when a mature Christian regresses for they have enough knowledge and power to do real damage to younger Christians. We are given such an awesome gift that we have to be careful not to abuse. And I am no where near an adult Christian. I think I am on the bridge between child and teenager in some respects because I am learning to trust the tools of faith that I have been being taught. But I hope that they are used to help others, not show off.

    Heather

  • Well, I don’t feel like you ever show off.    I feel that if God shows you something that you should tell as many people about it as possible!

  • Heather, thank you for your insights on my page………God bless you

  • Hi Heather!  Thank you so much for sharing this study.  I have a lot of room to grow as well!  God bless you tonight!

    Donna

  • Thanks for stopping by. Frangipane has been a mentor to me for a long time. Your pastor sounds alot like what he teaches in his books. A really awesome life changing book is called the three battlegrounds. My favorite quote by him is, ” Satan will not continue to assault you if the circimstances he designed to destroy you are now working to perfect you.”

    I enjoyed reading your article as well. Blessings on your journey.

  • Hi Heather…..Hope you and your family are doing well! GOD BLESS YOU and thanks for stopping by! And thanks for prayers!!

    Hope you have a wonderful week !

    Hugs…………………..

  • Hi Heather, just wanted to let you   know I am back….. enjoyed your posting

  • thanks for the comment. if you have time, could you read my post at the top o fthe page, and all the comments, and give an opinion?

    searching_for_meaning

    hehehehe

  • Heather

    I read up to the point where the pastor is concerned if the people don’t say hearty Amens at the point he thinks they should. Could you clarify that for me? I mean,there are CERTAIN statements,yes,if a minister says them in a certain context,yes…..they should bring forth an Amen. Example: at a Christian’s funeral,and the pastor quotes Scripture that “we sorrow not as those who have no hope”……SOMEONE should say an Amen! But what happens if no one does,does the minister then REBUKE the people,or use his preaching as a weapon to chide and deride them?

    I’ve seen it happen,Heather,and it all starts with a minister who thinks his preaching is so good he’s OWED a certain response.

    I am NOT saying that’s what’s happening here…..I’m only saying the statement,as it’s worded REMINDS me of that,and so I’m asking you to clarify. I did skip ahead right to the bottom of your post where you said,in essence,that “sometimes things get lost in translation” as you take notes. Is this such an instance? Please clarify. Thanks!

    Chet

  • i kinda like joy7′s comment on that one! hehehehehe

    i personally like letting people stand on their own two feet and learning firsthand what it takes…………..

  • Its not information but transformation. That’s what we are hungry for and all the rest is symptomatic of that hunger.  Blessings and amen.

  • Interesting stuff here.  :)

    It is interesting though, how cultural attitudes come into play.  In my culture, people do not say amen.  It would be considered rude and an interuption for someone to say that.  But in my friend Paulettes Culture (Black) it is rude not to say Amen.  We need to be careful that we keep our teachings pure and not superimpose our cultures onto others, and somehow make it part of the Gospel to act a certain way.  I teach on culture and know a missionary (Don Richardson) who when he went to the Sawi tribe in Paupau New Guinea, to say hello was to purse your lips at each other.  And in one place to say hello is to spit on each other chests.  In one place the Bible translators needed to translate the bread of life in the bible to another word, since the culture had no such thing as bread, so they needed something that was part of thier culutre to understand the passage.  So there are so many ways of communicating, I think it is really important to make sure our cultural actions stay firmly as culutural actions, and not put on others as part of the Christian faith or a necessary part of our walk as a Christian.

    And I am not saying Pastor Don does that at all, his culture is obvioulsy one of amens.  But to say that we need to say amen at times, is dangerous and heads on over to the mixing our cultures into the Bible.

    Culture and how to reach the world with the Gospel, without pushing our Culture on them, is a very intense, necessary and fascinating part of life. 

    Thanks for your faithful teaching on here Heather!

    :)   Marlene

  • Trust is hard for me too. I think that part of it lies in our early experiences with our parents, or parential figures. If we cannot trust them, then I think we will have a harder time trusting our Heavenly Father. Not b/c He isn’t worthy of trust, but b/c of our weakness (God refers to this as our frame being as dust in the Psalms). God is a mystery, even though there are certain things He makes clear about Himself in the Scriptures; He is still an infinite being. We are finite creatures with a very limited understanding of our own finite world; it is impossible to FULLY know God. However, I think that knowing God is more of an experience rather than a mere intellectual process.

    Grace & Peace,

    Robb <><

  • Angelsea, Pastor Don was giving an example. He is not afraid to share a weakness that he has or is overcoming with us to show a point. This was at a time in the past, and most certainly isn’t now. You may want to read on to see how he learned from his wife’s input. He is so convicted to preach the Word, not the ego that I do not think pride is a problem with him. In fact, he turns all compliments over to God.

    And yes, there are churches that are culturally more loud in their comments and churches that aren’t. I do not think he expects people to act in a certain way. Our church is a more verbal church, but if any of us, including Pastor Don were in a church that was not verbal we would not be speaking out loud. For as Paul says, we must have order in the service.

    I wish I were better at putting down the words of these studies so there was no misunderstanding. What is hard is that it is a 2 to 3 hour Bible study and I don’t take shorthand, sigh. If there are any misunderstandings it is me, not Pastor Don.

    I have to tell you that the last time I saw him, I tried to thank him for all the good things he has done for me in helping me in my walk in life, but he turned it all over to God.

    Heather

  • Thanks for your clarifying comment,sorry if I misunderstood. BTW,it was a friend of mine,not a family member,who passed away….but thanks for your concern.

  • I’ve just been in so many authoritarian churches,I guess…..

  • I understand completely, and frankly, I would run, not walk to the nearest exit if ever I was in an authoritarian church. It is one thing to share the authority of God, quite another to be authoritarian and legalistic. (she says smiling)

    Heather

  • this is great! i love your baby, teen, maturity analogy. it’s so hard to not be a teen, especially when you have the mind of a teen in the flesh, but thanks for this :)

  • There is always room for growth in all of us.

    However, I have to heartily disagree with you – tongues is *NOT* a private prayer language, and the Bible is clear that tongues should NEVER be used unless an interpreter is present.  (1 Cor 14:5).  I’m aware that there is private prayer language, as the Spirit can speak on our behalf in groans and utterances, and I’ve experienced that, but it’s not a separate language, it’s more like an assurance that what you really want to say to God is being spoken on your behalf, and you are fully aware of what it is.  (Don’t know how to explain my own experiences with it any better.)

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