March 2, 2005
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Two Hour Delay today, more snow came last night, and we were surprised to find no one at church, so no Tuesday Bible study. Guess we should have called.
Today I have a few questions.
Yesterday I picked up the book Rabbi Jesus; An Intimate Biography by Bruce Chilton to read, got to page 6 where he said this! “The attraction between Joseph and Mary must have been immediate; they broke with custom and slept together soon after meeting and well before their marriage was publically recognized.”
Down went the book, for this author, a professor of Religion at Bard College is denying the virgin birth. Sigh. The concept of the book sounded interesting because Jesus was Jewish and I thought it would be interesting to see things from that point of view. But this bit of error makes the whole book suspect.
Told my husband and he said that this is another example of people trying to put God into a box, they believe he created the world, but they can’t believe that he is capable of Virgin Birth, geesh. How little this Chilton’s god must be.
Here is my question:
1. Has anyone read this book, and if so, how accurate is most of the information? I am inclined to be dubious if after six pages there is such an errror.
2. How do you handle reading such books with errors?
3. Is there any good book out there that gives an accurate description of Jesus from this point of view, explaining the Jewish traditions he valued? And I know the Bible is the best reference to this, but sometimes a good commentator will help to explain.
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So I am also still working on the Revelation III study by Kay Arthur, and that is exciting, as we are beginning to take the Old Testiment prophesies, Jesus’ prophesies and put them into context of Revelation, and peeking ahead to the last week of study I am a bit scared, because there is a massive timeline for all the prophesies and we are going to review all we have studied and put them in context of the timeline. When we have our last class on this, I will share what I have learned, but that won’t be for a few weeks (as sometimes classes are cancelled by snow as this class is at a house about an hour away from where I live).
Picked up a book I want to savor, a bit at a time: Andrew Murray on Prayer, by Andrew Murray. It is a compilation of several of his 31 day devotional books, the first being Abide in Christ which seems to be 31 days of looking at John 15:1-2.
Now this is something Biblical, thank God!!!! And it is so relevent to where I am, because abiding in Christ does not come easy to this independent, scared, and frightened soul. I am so prone to wander and try to do things in my own understanding, to maintain control (where I used to feel safe), so spending time thinking about abiding is right up my alley.
I was reading Chapter one and an interesting concept came to me, that Jesus wants to abide with us. Somehow I always thought it was just me choosing to abide with Christ, not realizing that it was two way, that he desires us. Oh, I know that some say Song of Solomon is Christ’s love letter to us, and I know John 3:16, but I guess my insecurity makes me keep wondering if God really wants to deal with me, with any of us. I know that in my own understanding, I would say forget it, given the way people treated Him. And I guess this comes under the Chilton category of limiting God. But I think it is so awesome for me to try and sort out just how God deals with me.
I guess because I grew up in a home with abuse, and was not loved or wanted and plainly told about that, that the fact that God loves and wants me is a difficult one to conceive. It is one that takes a mega dose of faith to believe.
Anyway, thanks for answering my questions. And my last question:
What books are you reading that you are finding awesome?
Have a great day, my oldest son is playing patient vulture, wanting the computer before his brother gets up, so I am going to let him have it.
Have a great day.
Heather
Comments (20)
I haven’t read any of these books. But if a book like ‘Rabbi Jesus’ makes you suspect something off, or red flags starts going up, then you know it isn’t worth reading it. Or you can read it and help others through it by telling them the truth about whatever is being told in reference to the Bible. Have a great day Heather, and God Bless you. ~E
I am of the sort that if I find a BIG error like that, I put the book aside–if he is wrong in one point, his other points will also be distorted–my opinion!!! I love Kay Arthur and Andrew Murray. Right now I am reading “Searching for God knows what” by Donald Miller. Granted I didn’t care for exactly the way it started, but continued and glad I did, b/c you can see how he was searching for God. He brings up a lot of points in different ways than I think, so I am enjoying it. I am also reading Smith Wigglesworth on the Anointing. I read a lot; and have many books in “my library” which is two bookcases from floor to ceilings.
Have a GREAT day!!! You ARE blessed!!!
You may want to try the historians that were writing during the times of Jesus. Kay Arthur is good. Here ministry is based here in my city. If you want some prophecy teaching, check out Perry Stone. He is awesome. I will give you his website. He has a television broadcast called Mannafest. He is going to be here tomorrow and I can’t wait! I’ve always leaned to the word in the hebraic perspective because I get more understanding seeing that Jesus was born jewish and he lived in its customs and spoke the language of the times. So if you’re looking into bible prophecy I highly recommend Perry. His ministry is based about 30 miles from where I live and I have followed his ministry for over 20 years and he is very knowledgable. love you
Hey… About the “Rabbi Jesus” book… Just search for the truth. If it’s not right, you’ll know. And if it’s not right, discard it. And you asked if any books were awesome, well… Donald Miller is, by far, my favorite author. His prose isn’t baffling or arrogant, and that’s something I love about him. It’s really like reading a letter from a good friend. He makes you laugh, makes you think, makes you really look into your life and into the lines in Jesus’ face… And most importantly, makes you come out of his books with a new hunger to get to know our Lover, which I suppose is the best test to a book’s merit? Anyways, read “Blue like Jazz” first, and follow it up with “Searching for God knows what.” I’m partial to the latter, but they almost don’t work without one another… So yes, please read those… ;0). And check out Brennan Manning’s, “A Ragamuffin Gospel,” it’s tremendous. Have a good one.
Be loved, Audra, Psalm 143:5
I have not heard of that book but based on what you said I would not want to read it. I recently read a book called Lvoing God with All Your Mind by Elizabeth George. I highly recommend it.
Blue like Jazz is an awesome book. If you’re looking for recommendations, definitely ask my husband. He’ll point you in the right direction.
before deciding about book, read FKIProfessor’s post today (the one below the Big Red lol)
allowing herecy to enter into our minds can be a dangerous thing
maybe good to ask your pastor what he thinks
my uncle sent me a book written by a liberal christian to show me how the Bible isn’t historically accurate after all. i am having trouble reading it, so when I do pick it up, I be sure to read also something by a conservative christian scholar who has the same manuscripts at his disposal, but where one can see the bible as political maneuvering for ancient Israel, the other can see God’s handiwork
A good place for a Jewish perspective on Jesus is Lederer Messianic Resources. Just click the name here. You can request a catalog and read descriptions of the books to determine if it may be something you are interested in.
Can’t help you with any books on this subject other than the Bible, but if it’s a commentator you need, talk to the Holy Spirit
God Bless..hope you find what you’re looking for.
PS If you find an obvious fallacy in the book, it’s probably best not to read it for purposes of enlightenment. Only for the reason, that there may be ideas in the book that are wrong, but not so obvious.
I never read it, but I throw them away. We don’t need others picking it up and being taught lies.
FWIW, I made a chart. It’s not complete (I want verses for all of the events, and I haven’t added all of the references yet, but it’s here, if you want to see it. It’s as best as I can figure out…
http://www.geocities.com/desdemona_5425/endgraph.html
Heather here is the website:
http://perrystone.org/home.cfm
Hey Heather…I am nervous to say this…but…I have read that book…I don’t agree with Chilton said in most of the book…though there were a few interesting bits that can be pulled from it…I would only recommend continuing reading it if you are interested in it, knowing that much of what you read you won’t hang on to…anyhow…I always read books that others just “throw them away”…reading with a discerning heart is important…I always find it interesting to read others perspectives that are different than my own…
Andrew Murray’s book on prayer is unbelievable…definitely read it slowly…contemplatively…good stuff
Here is my book recommendations: The New Testament and the People of God ~ NT Wright (this is a true historical introduction of what the times and events of life were like in Christ’s generation)
I primarily only read Classics like Andrew Murray…so the books that I am reading that are awesome: The Sabbath (Abraham Heschel); Practice in Christianity (Kierkegaard); Life Together (Bonhoeffer); Knowing God (JI Packer); Jesus the Jewish Theologian (Brad Young); Jesus and Judaism (EP Sanders); The Pseudapigrapha
Anyhow my list of books goes on and on and on…but the Bible is always my primary source…
If you’d like info on any of the books I listed let me know…I would be happy to give you a quick synopsis…if you picked up ‘Rabbi Jesus’ for the jewishness of it…then there are a ton of books that I could recommend…but anything by NT Wright is gonna give you a biblically grounded and historically accurate depiction of the life of Christ as well as those within his community…
don
“How do you handle books with such errors?” I hear there’s a good market for scrap paper. Save a tree; recycle some heresy.
If you want information about Jesus and Jewishness, the best place I know of to start is http://www.jewsforjesus.org/ They have all kinds of great resources.
Three cheers for Andrew Murray!!! He’s right next to R. A. Torrey on my shelves.
okay…sorry…couldn’t resist…had to give you more book recommendations (Jewish insights into Christianity):
1. The Lost Message of Jesus ~ Chalke
2. They Loved the Torah ~ David Friedman
3. Restoring the Jewishness of the Gospel ~ David Stern
4. The Jewish New Testament and Commentary ~ David Stern
5. Paul the Jewish Theologian ~ Brad Young
6. Our Father Abraham
7. Parables (Jewish understanding of Christ’s parables) ~ Brad Young
8. Jesus and the Victory of God ~ NT Wright
9. The Resurrection of the Son of God ~ NT Wright
10. Understanding the Difficult Words of Jesus ~ David Bivin
Sorry for taking up so much space: You just hit a passion of mine…reading…Jewish Heritage of Christianity…
Last time I promise:
Follow the Rabbi is a website by Ray VanderLaan who is an amazing historian and Judeao/Christian Scholar…there are so many resources on this site…highly recommend it…
The man who sponsors this website is a born-again Christian of Jewish decent (there’s a mouthful).
I hate to argue, but I would recommend against anything written by David Stern. His books are written from a slanted perspective coming from ancient texts perverted by Jewish persecutors. He might have some interesting things to share, but as with the book in the original question, if there are obvious flaws, maybe his books wouldn’t be the best reference material. (I hope this helps:)
Thank you for your suggestions, I will start exploring and let you know what I find out. I really appreciate your help in this!!!!
I decided I was not going to read a book with such blatent lies without passing it by my pastor first. So I will let you know what he says as I have an appointment with him on Thursday.
Have a great night, it has been a long day for me.
Heather
I am not sure what Zippy means about David Stern…I have yet to find any issues with any of his books…but I have only read 3 of them…
I asked my pastor and his recomendations were as follows: The Words and Works of Christ by Dwight Pentecost; and The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah by Edersheim. Personally, right now I am reading ’A Gentle Thunder’ and ‘And The Angels Were Silent’ by Max Lucado and ‘If You Want To Walk On Water, You’ve Got To Get Out Of The Boat’ by John Ortberg. With my teenage daughter, I am reading ‘Every Young Woman’s Battle’ by Shannon Ethridge.
God Bless You as you seek Him…
I must agree with those who mentioned “Blue Like Jazz”. That book is simply incredible. Its not that deep and worthy of “study”, but it is an amazing look at the world we are called to reach out to from a very intelligent writer. I would definitely recommend that book.
Wow! Books I’m finding awesome…..I know of awesome books I’ve read, but to call certain ones awesome that I’m reading right now or recently….
How about my top favorite books overall…in no particular order….
“The Ragamuffin Gospel” by Brennan Manning
“Abba’s Child” by Brennan
“When Bad Christians Happen to Good People” by Dave Burchett
“Quiet Talks on Prayer” by SD Gordon (one of my favorites on prayer)
“Spiritual Mentoring” by Keith Anderson
“In the Name of Jesus” by Henri Nouwen
Gosh, I can’t make this list…there are too many books I have loved…..