March 6, 2006
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I have been puzzling over the response of where Israel will be in the end times, and this morning God gave me an answer when I was showering. Here is what came to my mind:
Romans 11:11-36
Israel’s Rejection Not Final
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them.
15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,
31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
34 ”For who has known the mind of the LORD?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35 ”Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”
36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
Comments (22)
This was a very good post and I thank you for it. I am studying Lent right now. My catholic friend lent (get it) me her bible. I am open to learning. Your information was very enlightening.
What is the context of what God is speaking about here when He mentions Israel? When it says all Israel shall be saved, does that LITERALLY mean that every Jew that has ever lived will be saved? The context is very clear here. Does the olive tree, Israel, consist ONLY of Jews, or BOTH Jews and Gentiles? Paul even clarifies this more in Romans 9:6-8: – For they ARE NOT all Israel, which ARE OF Israel. NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY THE CHILDREN, but in Isaac shall thy seed ( not seeds) be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh ( the Jews), THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: but the CHILDREN OF PROMISE ( the Israel of God – Both Jews and Gentiles) are counted for THE SEED.
Larry
Larry, re the above, I was countering people who say that God is through with Israel. Obviously only those who accept Jesus will be saved. But God will keep reaching out to people until the end.
Heather
I’m always confident of those “answers” that appear in the shower, during my morning run, or after some meditation.
In the above post where she mentioned that a Catholic friend lent her a bible….is it a Catholic(cult) bible or the Bible God intended for her to read. Romans is one of my favorite books to read. Thanks for taking time to type all that you did.
Blessings.
Heart Lessons,
I am not of the opinion that being Catholic is belonging to a cult. We do too much bashing of other denominations. I think that the Holy Spirit moves in many denominations. There is no denomination that has the whole truth, we all have errors in our understanding. God will sort that out. The Catholic Bible has a few extra books in it. Why is it that Christians have to try to poke holes in others beliefs? We have a much bigger enemy than another denomination that merits serious consideration. And I am certain that that enemy is delighted when we tear into each other with our points of view, for that keeps the real work from being done.
Heather
Have you ever done the Kay Arthur study, “Covenant”? It is possibly one of the most enriching studies I’ve ever encountered. It shows so clearly God’s faithful character to those He has entered a relationship with through covenant. Only man breaks covenants–not God. So, it all depends on whether or not man had anything to do with the establishing the covenant in question. God clearly established an everlasting covenant with His beloved Israel and it will come about because He is faithful to what He has promised…even when we are not. (For this I am most blessed) This Covenant study also gave me a powerful way to help people see why I believe that once a person is truly saved by grace, they are always saved and cannot lose their salvation. And yes, I love those shower brain storms too!
My sincere apologies about my blunt statment on Catholics. I too was raised Catholic and have many Catholic friends. Most of them tell me they are Catholic not Christian. I praise God I now know the truth. I was not poking holes at others beliefs. There is only ONE belief and that is that Jesus is God, he was born of a virgin (whom the Catholics worship), was sacrificed for our sin, raised from the dead, and is coming again. Any other belief is wrong. That is not a point of view, it’s truth. The Bible is the whole truth, therefore any denomination who preaches or teaches less than the whole truth is in error. I agree that perhaps we can’t comprehend or contain some of what’s in there but it’s all we need. God helps us discern as you said. I certainly believe that some Catholics are saved but if they continue to follow the “church” and it’s teachings, they are being deceived. Since when can we pray to dead relatives, ask Mary to intervene for us, think the Pope is God himself? I would think these 3 things alone speak of the deception being taught. I’m thankful that you’re being obedient and submissive where your husband is concerned and I will pray also. Speaking out about the Catholic religion (that’s all it is, a religion, rosary, repetative prayers) is no different than speaking out about Mormans or Jehovah Witnesses. In the end times, many false religions will arise. Obviously, we have to be careful. No cruel intents intended.
Bingo… I think God still has a plan for the nation of Israel. The key phrase is in verse 25, (a verse I have struggled with for some time.) “blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” That UNTIL means something is only temporary… and it is speaking of the “blindness” of Israel. That will cease to be when the “fullness of the Gentiles” has arrived. Now… I would LOVE to know what that means!! I have asked pastors, preachers, scholars, and bottom line… no one really knows for sure. I either get a blank look or someone says it means when the church age is finished. But they couldn’t tell me WHY.. it was just a hunch!!! Well, that’s just not good enough!
I want cross references! lol So… I have ranted on here… but if you hear of anyone that can REALLY explain that verse… please pass it on!!
Love, Bee
Heather, I have to admit that I was rather amused as I browsed through the responses that you mentioned. I understand completely what you mean about denominations, which is why even though my husband is the youth pastor at a “Southern Baptist” church–I prefer to be called simply, a child of God. It’s no wonder that people who have not come into a relationship with Christ aren’t really interested in one because of what they see going on within the “church” (and I use that term lightly). Just keep doing what you are doing, passionately searching the Word of God through the greatest Teacher that we have–the Holy Spirit. And don’t get discouraged…when I wonder why I’m doing what I’m doing, God often whispers a simple sentence in my ear that changed my heart forever when I was ready to give up on what He had called me and my husband to do~ “Keep on for the one more who will come.” Blessings~
Heather, I agree that God will keep reaching out until the end, for I am one of those Jews that is saved.
Heather, I once again appreciate your insightful words. I pray that my post did nothing to demean my friend’s character, but to bring light to the constant struggle with my own. Thank you also for sharing your testimony–it is a painfully horrific, yet beautiful story of despair to hope that no one wants to be their own, but that everyone needs to hear. I’m sorry that you lived it, but grateful to God that you are surviving and overcoming it. My friend is too and her trust is growing and she is shedding a lot of pain, bit by bit and then enduring new pain as God reveals more to her. I feel so very inadequate to minister to her at times, even though I have lived a shadow of what she and you have lived. Maybe that is why it is so frustrating to me at times, it throws me back into my past when I would rather not remember. So I would appreciate your prayers for her and for me. I don’t ever vent my frustrations to her openly, but I feel them in my heart…so it pretty much shuts me down as an effective vessel for God to use. BTW her name is Elaine. I found this quote lately and I think I will use it in a post tomorrow–but it is how God loves and wants us to love:
“The way to love someone is to lightly run your finger over that person’s soul until you find a crack, and then gently pour your love into that crack.”
~Keith Miller
Thanks again for your gentle candor. Sherry
Thanks for coming to my site wanted to pop in and say hi. I always find your site very thought provoking. Be blessed
Wow…
I just pass by and your site looks very biblical.
Continue your passion for the Lord
Take care and God bless ya~
James
Isn’t it wonderful, Heather, that His Word holds the answers…Indeed, He has not given up on Israel…With much love and many prayers, Paula
How can anyone say that God has given up on Israel? They are his chosen people.
Go Heather. It is true we do too much bashing of each others denominations. The denominations are founded upon what we as humans determine to be doctrines. We are looking for those allusive answers that God has not provided us with, at least not clearly. We who believe and have received the Holy Spirit are his true children. We must put our differences aside. We already know we, as a human race created by God will win in the end by His sovereign power and grace. The least we can do as sinners, is to extend some measure of Christian love for each other. Just look at what God did for us. He chose us to do his purpose, to be holy and blameless before him, “before the foundations of the world.” How gracious is that. If only others who say they are Christians would stop judging (for who are we to judge right and wrong) and put all that effort into unifying with each other as those given to Christ. I agree with Prairwarrior4u, that we are Christians first and regardless of our denominations, we are In Christ, being adopted by the Father of the Son to be his children, receiving all the bleesings he gives his true son. (In the early church days, the Roman culture looked upon an adopted child as one who would receive an equal share of the blessings as teh “real” children.
For those who have left you comments containing negative “vibes”, let God deal with them and may they see from the examples of others of how a true follower of Christ behaves. I now know we have a Southern Baptist who reads your posts. You can add to that a member of the society of the frozen chosen (I’m Presbyterian, and one of the smaller more conservative Presbyterians to bat!). It does not matter about skin color nor does it matter whether you are of the Calvinistic persuasion or the Armenian or Weslyan camp or the Pentacostal etc. All who believe are sons ans daughters of Christ. We are called to glorify God in our thoughts and actions. After all, that is what our main purpose in life now, and for all eternity will be. Imagine when we all get in heaven and can share in the praise of God’s glory with a sinless heart.
Sorry for the length,
InChrist
Steve
I don’t think that truth will present itself as a stumbling block. I understand we must truly think before we speak because our pride can inch it’s way in to our opinions. I try to stay as true to God’s Word without error. With His truth, there is no room for opinions, only truth, for His Word is Truth. And more times than not, Truth hurts.
I always find anything about israel interesting
thanyou for your prayers
Dom
When is the “time of the Gentiles?” That is a good question. Some say it means when all the gentiles have been saved. While others say that it is when Jesus came and presented salvation to anyone who believes. God has never turned His back on Israel. It was through Israel that the message of salvation came and was fulfilled — namely Jesus.
When God looks on His people, those who are saved by grace through faith in Christ, does He see Jews, gentiles, slave, and free? According to Scripture He does not. He only sees His people called by His name. I, for one, am glad. I would not like slaughtering sheep anymore… :>)
By the way… if denominations are not important, why does God allow them? Why are we not all Bible believing Mormons then? Or why can’t we just believe what we want to about God? If you do not know why and how denominations came about go back and do some reading concerning a little thing called the Reformation. It does matter what you believe and adhere to and why. Theology does matter.
Good stuff! Amen… keep discerning… maybe I can pick your brain on this issue!
Regarding denominations, perhaps God does not allow them, perhaps denominations come about because of man and his opinions. God grieved everytime the Israelites chose to do their own thing, but he did not prevent them from making the wrong choices. To compare Christian denominations with Mormans is like comparing apples and oranges. From my understanding of Mormanism they do not say that Jesus Christ is God and feel that he is an angel.
People can have their denominations, it is what they do with them that makes them good or bad. We can get so caught up in our traditions, our belief system, and so certain we are right that sometimes we miss that still small voice of God. Can we not let God correct the errors in other’s thinking or are we God’s enforcer?
Fortunately for us and the New Testament, Paul was open to change his opinion. He was anti-Christian, and God got through to him to change his way of thinking. I think the differences between denominations in many instances are rather nit-picky. And I still seriously doubt that any denomination has the total truth with no error mixed in.
Once we are saved God sees us as His children, under the blood of Jesus and then there is no Jew, Gentile, slave or free. Before we were saved there are Jews and Gentiles. In our world today there are Jews and Gentiles, those who have not accepted Christ. I love this time of the Gentile comment of God’s for it keeps us on our toes. We never will know when the time of the Gentiles is completed, so it keeps us reaching out to others with God’s word, and we can be like the virgins who keep their lamps ready, or the servant who anxiously awaits the master’s coming and does things right. We will not be lax like we might be if we knew that the time of the Gentiles was for example, next Tuesday, then we might feel we can shirk things until Monday and then do what is necessary in preparation for Tuesday. I think that is why God is not so open about exact timing.
I never said Theology didn’t matter, but I can also see that by sticking to a theological point of view, clamping on and not letting go, that instead of really helping another person understand, you just build walls not bridges. It might be self-gratifying to successfully win a theological argument to show how right you are, but maybe the expense might be the loss of the chance to have a meaningful dialogue with a person to help them move a step closer to the truth from where they are. If you cause a person to back off because of an inflexible point of view it really isn’t serving God’s kingdom. Even Jesus would begin dialogues where a person was and through a good and friendly dialogue bring them to where He wanted them to be. Example the Woman at the Well.
I cringe with theology points of view because my husband is Catholic, and my sister in law in her lovely born again hard-nosed way told him he was going to Hell for his beliefs. Instead of bringing him closer to the truth, he ended up mocking born agains. Funny, when I got born again I asked my pastor what to do. He told me to say nothing, let my life show him the change in me. I go to mass with my husband, he knows I am born again, doesn’t mock anymore and is now attending two Bible studies and beginning to question some things that he sees in the Catholic church that do not line up with the Bible. He has come further by my not pressing a correct theological point, but by what I did instead of what I said. And God is doing the real work of changing his point of view.
From my historical perspective, when a person comes on too hard I back off, for it increases my fear of being hurt, for those who hurt me so badly in the past were very vehement in their opinions, and I got the brunt of them. You may not appreciate the fact that right now I love the Bible very much, but at one time I broke out in a cold sweat just touching the Bible – because of my father throwing things at me because I didn’t read it outloud correctly. God does change people, but it is God who changes, we can either help or hinder God. I hope never to hinder God.
Figured I would give you a long answer (she says smiling).
Heather